JaegerMeister Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Another delectable offering for you warmongerers, this time an article written by a young German who served in panzers and an AFV called a 'SturmPA'? with a 150mm gun ? during Kursk. Maybe you grogs can enlighten me on what vehicle this is.? Enjoy..... http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/2941/articles.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 He then went from self-propelled artillery to King Tigers with "night-vision gizmos" uh-huh "less then three minutes my tank and the other knocked out 28 Soviet T-34s only because we had those blessed night sight gizmos" uh-huh. And "At Kamenz, before I had been sent to pick up the new tanks, I had scrounged up a set of Infantry uniforms. This I did in the hope that I would have time to change into grays. This saved my life, because the Russians hated German tankers with a purple passion. I, personally, know of no Panzer man who was taken prisoner by the Russians and returned home. Not a single one." Sounds like you're avergage 80 year old german vet to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegerMeister Posted December 6, 2002 Author Share Posted December 6, 2002 So in your mind Foxbat, what the guy went through and saw is 'average' in your world, is it? Maybe you should be put through some 'average' experiences I have great respect for all who fought in those tumultuous times. edit: apart from the sadists and opportunists who took advantage of the desperate situation good men found themselves in. [ December 06, 2002, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: JaegerMeister ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danzig Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Link goes to a disabled geocities page? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Well I can think of at least one guy who went from assault guns to Tigers....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by JaegerMeister: So in your mind Foxbat, what the guy went through and saw is 'average' in your world, is it? Maybe you should be put through some 'average' experiences I have great respect for all who fought in those tumultuous times.Yep this is fairly typical for germans (or Jerries as they call themselves), they shift from service to service always have the newest euipment (often even newer than that) and talk like they are 20 years old because the horrors of war have taught them to live life to the fullest and "live like a young man until ya drop dead". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I don't knopw... it seems kind of fishy. "Basic training, AIT??" Russian Female infantry in summer, 1941?? Never heard of T-34 until winter 1941?? I just got through the first half. I think it's fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak_43 Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Sturmpanzer with a 150mm on a panzer IV chassis? probaly means the Brummbar?? A real beast!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I'm not sure about this one. It's an interesting read, but sounds like it's coming from a very young American! Some of the phrases he uses are just strange and seem out of place. Oh and. . . "After arriving at my new station, I was asked about my drivers license and since it showed I was able to drive a truck, was issued a truck, a boy-soldier riding shotgun and, with a dozen other trucks, we were sent to Dresden. There, we went to the collecting points for the dead. Hundreds of POWs (Kurt Vonnegut, the US author, was one of them; he wrote about it in his “Slaughterhouse Five”), criminal prisoners as well as a large number of KZ inmates were going through the rubble, collecting the dead. As God is my witness, of all the deal people I hauled, NOT A SINLE ONE WAS A MILITARY MAN. All of them were women, children and very old men refugees from the east, fleeing from the Russians, only to be murdered by the British and American air forces. I will never forget the little girl whose cranium had burst open, because her brain had exploded from the heat. I hope to God, she was dead by then. I also hope I will meet Bomber Harris in Hell when my time comes and God sends me there instead of to a new life. Our morale at Dresden was so bad that we received a liter bottle of vodka a day per man and as much food as we wanted to eat. None of us could eat or sleep much. The present German government speaks of some 140,000 victims; I am convinced the number is way over 250,000." - yeah and murdering millions of Jews was much less evil. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickovich Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I have to agree that this is most likely fraudulent.For all the reasons mentioned above and many others as well.One springs to mind especially:"Then everything went black.I removed my MP38 and shot all 32 rounds into the russky."Ah lack of continuity gets em everytime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I wish I had taken the time to interview my gramp before he died. He was a tank commander in Battle of The Bulge. Shipped their after fighting in the pacific for some time. I hate myself for not documenting his experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D Salt Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by JaegerMeister: Another delectable offering for you warmongerers, this time an article written by a young German who served in panzers and an AFV called a 'SturmPA'? with a 150mm gun ? during Kursk. Maybe you grogs can enlighten me on what vehicle this is.? Enjoy..... http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/2941/articles.htmThe vehicle referred to is clearly the one we usually refer to as the Brummbär. According to Chamberlain & Doyle, "Encyclopedia of German Tanks of WW2", page 101: "Sturmpanzerabteilung 216 was issued with the first Brummbär, and was rushed off to the Eastern front for the summer offensive at Kursk. This unit was also active in defensive battles near Zaparozhye up to October 1943. Three additional Sturmpanzer detachments (217, 218 and 219) were formed during the war, and fought on the major eastern and western fronts, and also in Italy." The entry also confirms that the third and final production series had a ball-mounted MG added. All the best, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegerMeister Posted December 6, 2002 Author Share Posted December 6, 2002 Well, there were a few bits that made me crease my brow, but it seems more probable to me that its someone old re-counting 'snapshots' in their mind, but filled out with past tense information? The author of the site mentions that he was in correspondence with the guy for several weeks, so presume he would know if he was talking to 'a young American' or an old soldier. Some of the elements of the article are a bit too elaborate to 'make-up' dont you think?..ie describing the actions in the 150mm laden AFV. I thought it was an interesting read anyhow (maybe not fascinating but i cant re-title the thread ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I know what you mean. I actually think the story might be about 95% true, but interpreted/narrated improperly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickovich Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 To the degree of being in the peacetime bootcamp of 1940 Germany.That's a very senile soldier since they were at war since '39.And the details that one could point to could be lifted from books.This isn't the first person to recount being in a tank.Finally the poster of the story says that he did very little editing if any.I know it dosen't make any sense to do such a thing but stranger things have happened then posting a erroneous story.Just my opinion,not trying to start a debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I was talking with my older brother who is married to a native German ("Heika") and we got on the subject of CMBB. They both started talking about Heika's uncle who was a Prussian fighting for Germany with the 3rd SS Panzer Division. I think that's what they said. My brother talked with the guy (about 6 years ago) and saw a photo of him wearing what I think he said was a black uniform and he said something about how he had skull and crossbones on the hat or something like that. We talked for like an hour about what he had told them and some of it was fascinating and shocking. He was a prisoner of war if I remember correctly but don't hold me to that. My brother is also a HUGE WWII buff (if he gets a new PC he's gonna buy CMBB). I love talking to people who spoke directly with vets from WWII. It's always so interesting and they are all dying off so hopefully they leave their history with us in enough volume to atisfy our curiosity and admiration. Anyway, something that seems to stick out about our conversation is how the uncle (don't remember his name) witnessed other prisoners being shot in the head because they fell and didn't get up fast enough or whatever. I'm sure there is much more to his story. The man is still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 And before you all get all riled up, yes - I begged if there was any way to get a photocopy of that picture. Who knows what might happen. I would DIE to be able to put that on my upcoming website. Wasn't the 3rd SS Panzer Div pretty famous?? I'm not very good with the history on this front but getting better (Thanks to CMBB) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattman2000 Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 The Totenkopf division? Yikes. If his story's true, he's lucky he didn't get shot in the noggin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by mattman2000: The Totenkopf division? Yikes. If his story's true, he's lucky he didn't get shot in the noggin.I don't even know what that is. But that's the best I recollect from an informal conversation I had about a week ago. That and how my dad was upset that one of his siblings took my gramp's WWII souveniers after his death and claim to have no knowledge of their whereabouts. they included some authentic Rising Sun flags from the battlefields during Pacific duty, a samurai sword he took from a dead jap officer that has a bunch of symbols etched into the blade that supposedly can be used to trace the sword right back to it's very origin 100s of years ago, and a very valuable rifle. I don't know that much about WWII rifles but I remember them saying it was a weatherbee and this could be wrong, but I think a 300 magnum or something like that. Who knows. But we do know that somebody is lying and thos artifacts are somewhere in the family (they better not have been sold) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by MasterGoodale: And before you all get all riled up, yes - I begged if there was any way to get a photocopy of that picture. Who knows what might happen. I would DIE to be able to put that on my upcoming website. Wasn't the 3rd SS Panzer Div pretty famous?? I'm not very good with the history on this front but getting better (Thanks to CMBB)Heh. 3rd SS Panzer Division was known as "Totenkopf". In English thats "Death's Head". Early in the war at least, it was mostly composed of concentration camp guards on combat duty. One it's most famous commanders, Theodore Eicke, was a former camp commander. I'm honestly suprised he survived his imprisonment given the infamy of this division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbb Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: Eicke did not survive the war. He died in a plane crash in February 1943. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Very interesting. Thanks for the info! If I do get lucky and end up getting a photo I will post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 --There, between our tank and the next one, a Sergeant was running in circles and screaming like a banshee, holding his rear end and hollering until he finally collapsed. Don’t forget, there still was sporadic Russian rifle fire. Somebody from this squad dragged him behind our tank and we finally found out what happened. His steel helmet had received a direct hit; the steel had been pierced, but the bullet had lost almost all its speed and had traveled INSIDE THE HELMET to the rear of his head, exited, went along the spine and lodged, hotter than hell, right between his cheeks where it sizzled to a standstill. Trust me: never in the rest of my life did I hear such unearthly screaming. -- hystorical fiction (my guess) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 Originally posted by cbb: Eicke did not survive the war. He died in a plane crash in February 1943.I meant MasterGoodale's relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianc Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 hystorical fiction (my guess)Hysterical, or historical? You make the call... ianc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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