Panzer76 Posted October 19, 2002 Share Posted October 19, 2002 I never used on board mortars much in CMBO, cos I never really saw the use for them. With the more realistic inf behaviour in CMBB.. Why I love them: 1. You can put them in cover and spot with a HQ. Couple this with u can use HT mortars also. 2. You get indirect fire capabilities which you can deploy quickly. 3. You get smoke, which is essential now for any kind of attack or movement over exposed territory. 4. The effect of mortars on low experienced soldiers is devestating. You dont have to even cause a cas, and still they panic or route. 5. After the inclusion of fitness, the above effect combined with attacking heavy weapons practically makes them useless for a very long time, why? Cos the TacAI switches over to the sneak command, which exhaust the soldiers very quickly. And after thet, they are of a limited value. In sum, mortars are perfect for breaking up the organisation and movement of the enemy, and provide cover for ur own forces. In one instance, my 81 mm got 41 cas! Not bad, and even if ou dont get a lot of cas, u disrupt the enemys coordination. Any one else "seen the light" in CMBB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted October 19, 2002 Share Posted October 19, 2002 oh yes! it's not a new tactic to be sure. i used it often in cmbo, but it's even more effective than ever in cmbb. the only problem is that the russians never seem to get very many of em, often only 1 in a batallion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted October 19, 2002 Share Posted October 19, 2002 You're using mortars to break up the AI's co-ordination ? That's interesting. I'd be even more interested to know how you got the AI to co-ordinate its troops in the first place. I've always used them primarily to knock out guns and rout MG's. They seem to be slightly less effective at this in CMBB but maybe that's because I've used the smaller calibre mortars more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 19, 2002 Share Posted October 19, 2002 I had a peculiar thing happen with an on-map mortar in a QB I am playing. A Red 50mm was being spotted for in a night game. I had ordered it to do area fire on a house which had a German HMG in it. The mortar fired six rounds and then stopped and never fired any more. It was in good shape, had plenty of ammo left, was still in command of the spotting HQ, and the HQ still had LOS to the house. During that time, I brought up a second mortar and gave it the order to fire on the same house. It never fired, even though conditions were perfect for it to do so. Both mortars showed an area fire targetting line, but neither were firing. Anybody else run into this or hear of it before? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted October 19, 2002 Share Posted October 19, 2002 maybe they were under orders not to do any "unnecessary" damage to the local buildings, like the scene in bob when the british tanker refuses to fire on a building that was conceiling a german panzer just on the other side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Posted October 19, 2002 Share Posted October 19, 2002 I've been a fan since CMBO, but they are far more useful in CMBB. With the importance of suppression in BB, you need every bit you can get. They are great for MGs and guns as was mentioned. I also use them to suppress on the attack. Even the 50mm is very effective at suppressing or breaking units in woods up to regular quality. Gone are the CMBO days when units would hang around for treeburst after treeburst. The same and more when defending. A couple of well placed 50mm rounds can stop a platoon dead for 2-3 min. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Beginna Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Yeah, and it is really nice when you penetrate the ealy tank's roof with a 50 mm mortar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer76 Posted October 21, 2002 Author Share Posted October 21, 2002 Had a 50mm hit the top of my tank, what happend? No penetration, internal spalling. Gotta love this new penetration model! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ligur Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 In CM:BO they were my Nr. 1 unit for taking out field guns. It worked really well. Now I can do even more damage by disrupting oppo maneuvers like nobodys business! Hooray for on-board mortars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippy Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Originally posted by Ligur: In CM:BO they were my Nr. 1 unit for taking out field guns. It worked really well. Now I can do even more damage by disrupting oppo maneuvers like nobodys business! Hooray for on-board mortars!Not to meantion they make for great Smoke cover on the fly when attacking. This is really important for the Soviets: "What do you mean the 122mm smoke mission will take 12 turns to get here! Oh screw it, pass me that mortar..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRSutton Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Yes, the now the halftracks with mortars are very useful vehicles, and not just worthless flak bait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Originally posted by Ligur: In CM:BO they were my Nr. 1 unit for taking out field guns.Aye... Fun, except when you're on the receiving end. I was once defending against an attack, and had a 88mm PAK43 in a perfect vantage point: trees, foxhole, elevated position, full FOF from corner to corner... And then it gets knocked out after getting roughly five mortar rounds. Never took out a single tank. Bleh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ligur Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Originally posted by Bone_Vulture: [/qb]Aye... Fun, except when you're on the receiving end. I was once defending against an attack, and had a 88mm PAK43 in a perfect vantage point: trees, foxhole, elevated position, full FOF from corner to corner... And then it gets knocked out after getting roughly five mortar rounds. Never took out a single tank. Bleh. [/QB]Yeah the mortars were FRIGHTENING in their power to take out field guns in CM:BO already... A few shots from a regular 81mm crew could take out whatever the piece was. Infantry, machineguns, they didn't mind that much or as fast, and even could get away but guns were just dead meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Originally posted by Panzer76: 4. The effect of mortars on low experienced soldiers is devestating. You dont have to even cause a cas, and still they panic or route. Lest anyone think this is less than realistic, a Commonwealth battalion CO wrote this in the unit war diary in 1944: "The morale of the Battalion at rest is good. However, it must be said that 'Battle Morale' is definitely not good due to the fact that inadequately trained men are, of necessity, being sent into action ignorant of any idea of their own strength, and after their first mortaring, overwhelmingly convinced of the enemy's. (emphasis added) This feeling is no doubt increased by their ignorance of fieldcraft in its most elementary form." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 If you are positioning your AT guns on top of hills with a great field of view you are ASKING to get mortared. Try placing your AT guns with narrow fields of view or on reverse slopes and supported by machine guns and see how hard they are to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Originally posted by Keith: If you are positioning your AT guns on top of hills with a great field of view you are ASKING to get mortared. Try placing your AT guns with narrow fields of view or on reverse slopes and supported by machine guns and see how hard they are to kill.Hey, it was an 88! That means quite a hefty investment, and by giving it a narrow FOF I would've risked enemy tanks driving around it unscathed. And the mortar rounds really came out of nowhere, I would've returned fire, given the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Imagine the fun that you could have with the 3" mortars in CM:BO in the CM:BB engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 I notice in this thread and elsewhere of late people are using the term "field guns" to denote AT guns. This is confusing as the standard meaning SFAIK confines it to field artillery, i.e. howitzers and guns used to fire indirectly. I for one would appreciate it if people would write AT gun when they mean AT gun and give the other weapons their proper names as well. AT guns, AA guns, field artillery, heavy artillery, infantry guns, etc. all have unique physical characteristics and uses on the battlefield. I don't want to mix them up. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Originally posted by Bone_Vulture: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Keith: If you are positioning your AT guns on top of hills with a great field of view you are ASKING to get mortared. Try placing your AT guns with narrow fields of view or on reverse slopes and supported by machine guns and see how hard they are to kill.Hey, it was an 88! That means quite a hefty investment, and by giving it a narrow FOF I would've risked enemy tanks driving around it unscathed...</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Originally posted by JonS: Well, the return on investment you got placing it on the top of the hill would tend to indicate you need to change somethingPerhaps I should note that this was CM:BO, where field guns didn't receive a concealment bonus before firing. No they didn't, they came out of a position that had good LOS to your hilltop, yet which you couldn't see because they were in good cover (e.g. woods). From the top of a hill, there are plenty of locations that fit that descriptionThere is no certain ideal solution for the problem, my opponent simply had mortars around with a lucky LOS. I do not like the idea of narrow and possibly splintered FOF for field guns, it'll easily allow tanks to charge from cover to cover, or evade the gun completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Originally posted by Bone_Vulture: ... my opponent simply had mortars around with a lucky LOS ...Yes, that'll be it: LUCK. Nothing to do with skill, tactics, experience, etc. Its all to do with luck BFC, I want more luck in my games. Pleez fix or sum dofink! Unluckily yours JonS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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