One more thing on bunkers...

[V]

This conerns bunkers of all types.

Didn't the crews who manned the bunkers have rifles also assigned to them? And shouldn't they be able to fire those rifles if they run out of their main ammo (AT shells or MG rounds, etc.) until the bunker is knocked out or they run out of rifle ammo?

And when it is knocked out, wouldn't they also take their rifles with them when they bailed?

[Zenedon]

Attacking a bunker with MG is hard. Add rifles and what do you get?

[Bone_Vulture]

I guess the crew of a bunker would be well too busy keeping it's primary weapon(s) operative to fire rifles... When the primary weapon is knocked out or out of ammo, I woldn't find it odd if the crew would fire their rifles from the bunker.

[Björn Eriksson]

Originally posted by Zenedon:

Attacking a bunker with MG is hard. Add rifles and what do you get?

A realistic bunker, perhaps?

[V]

Originally posted by Bone_Vulture:

I guess the crew of a bunker would be well too busy keeping it's primary weapon(s) operative to fire rifles... When the primary weapon is knocked out or out of ammo, I woldn't find it odd if the crew would fire their rifles from the bunker.

That is exactly what I mean...

[Chad Harrison]

When they leave, they have pistols only. Remember, a lot of things in CM are abstracted. Maybe they do have rifles, but they are low on ammo, and are too shaken up to be effective at long range with them. Crews in CM are not made to fight. They are made to move off the map, or to be killed/captured for bonus points.

Chad

[Cameroon]

Originally posted by Chad Harrison:

When they leave, they have pistols only. Remember, a lot of things in CM are abstracted. Maybe they do have rifles, but they are low on ammo, and are too shaken up to be effective at long range with them. Crews in CM are not made to fight. They are made to move off the map, or to be killed/captured for bonus points.

Chad

Well, the good news is that bunker crews no longer abandon their bunkers just because they ran out of ammo. Which is fortunate since the crews abandoning their bunkers counted as victory points for the opposite side.

[V]

Originally posted by Chad Harrison:

When they leave, they have pistols only. Remember, a lot of things in CM are abstracted. Maybe they do have rifles, but they are low on ammo, and are too shaken up to be effective at long range with them. Crews in CM are not made to fight. They are made to move off the map, or to be killed/captured for bonus points.

Chad

I understand that. And I do not expect them to charge enemy positions or even last long in combat. But I was thinking that their punch might be a bit stronger when stumbled upon.

Any crew that has bailed something should always be easily paniced or routed. I just think they could possibly use a rifle or two in the process.

But I am really more interested in them firing the rifles from the bunker itself when they run out of ammo for the main weapon.

[akdavis]

He has a good point. Men in bunkers aren't really crews, but parts of whatever infantry unit is fighting in the area. That is you don't have B Company manning the trenches while Special Bunker Detachment (I can only imagine what the word for this would be in German!) 90210 mans the pillboxes. I also wish that bunker "crews" were a bit more integrated into the battle, but I'm sure this is something we can expect to see worked on more in the rewrite. Sure works fine now and could only get better.

[V]

Originally posted by akdavis:

He has a good point. Men in bunkers aren't really crews, but parts of whatever infantry unit is fighting in the area. That is you don't have B Company manning the trenches while Special Bunker Detachment (I can only imagine what the word for this would be in German!) 90210 mans the pillboxes. I also wish that bunker "crews" were a bit more integrated into the battle, but I'm sure this is something we can expect to see worked on more in the rewrite. Sure works fine now and could only get better.

Once again, very well said. They do work well now, but we can always talk about it possibly getting better.

[V]

Lets just say one of your "regular" German wooden MG bunkers main gun and gunner are knocked out by an air strike. The remaining crew stumbles out. These guys are more likely to be trained infantry than a tank crew, and they do have rifles in their bunker. I would think there should be a chance that one or two of the crew members, depending on experience, will grab a rifle while in the process of bailing.

They do and run off for the best cover they can find.

Eventually, the enemy infantry comes stomping along and bypasses the knocked out bunker. Now, depending on the moral state of the bailed crew, if the enemy does not spot them, the crew could do some minor, but critical damage to enemy infantry which I don't think would be too unrealistic. For instance, if this crew I am speaking of manages to get a flank or rear volley at a platoon hq and panics them (we are talking about Russians here) that could really ruin your opponents assault. And like I said, I do not find it to unrealistic at all.

Don't get me wrong, I am not un-happy with the wat CMBB and CMBO handle bunkers as is. But, of course, I think it could be slightly enhanced without too much trouble. As far as whether it is possible int he current engine, I do not know. But it is something I would not mind seeing and I bring up here for the sake of discussion.

[V]

Originally posted by KnivBjorn:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Zenedon:

Attacking a bunker with MG is hard. Add rifles and what do you get?

A realistic bunker, perhaps? </font>