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The archer, is it useful?


Europa

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I find them very unwieldy. They can't profit from the array of movement orders other vehicles have, thin armour and you WILL put them back to front (front to back?) sooner or later. Keyhole-ing works OK but try any other usage and it's just too unwieldy to use. Can't hide, can't move well. If you want a mobile 17pdr get the Firefly or Achilles or even seriously consider buying a truck for the 17pdr ATG.

I keep using them because I WANT to like them but I keep getting them thrashed. Not that I don't thrash every vehicle assigned to me but Archers are way worse.

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Here's a question pertaining to the Archer and all other vehicles with rear-facing weapons:

When I give a "rotate" command, should I point it in the direction I want the GUN to face or the direction I want the DRIVER to face?

Thanks!

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Martyr, the rotate refers to the driver (who is doing the rotating!).

I'm with Elmar on this one. They suck. Go for a regular 17lb AT gun anyday.

I understand why Archers were made, and how TDs are supposed to work, but at least in CM, they are too visible, poorly maneuverable (back to manual hull-down or shoot&scoot!) and essentially unarmoured.

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Originally posted by Grimthane:

I understand why Archers were made, and how TDs are supposed to work, but at least in CM, they are too visible, poorly maneuverable (back to manual hull-down or shoot&scoot!) and essentially unarmoured.

Ah, how art mimics life...
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Archers are wonderful things. They´re not easy to handle, and die if you just look at them in the wrong way, but boy, they really could make those ubercats lovers day a nightmare.

Think of them as mobile 17 pounders, cause thats what they are. And no, buying a 17 pounder and a truck or HT is not the same, cause you get those horrible four minutes setup times for the gun.

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I don't have CMAK so I can't comment on the Archer in CMAK. But I have used it in CMBO and, with the right handling, it can be deadly. The key is to understand the difference between what it is (an anti-tank gun with a very powerful weapon that can fire when limbered) and what it isn't (a tank or a tank destroyer), and to use it accordingly. The fact that the gun points backwards is only a problem if you have trouble switching back and forth between the left and right hand sides of your brain: it's great for fast exits. Think of the Archer as an automatically limbered sniper canon. That 17 lb. gun can do some pretty amazing things.

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I'm curious (not having much Archer experience): why is the Archer considered so much worse than a StuG? Is it just the lack of armor? It would seem that anyone who can get surprise first shots with a StuG would be thrilled to have a 17-pounder in the same role.

Of course, that first shot really has to count...

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I agree with Philippe that the Archer can be quite cool when used in the right situation, but it does take practice (and some luck) to use them effectively. I'd recommend playing around with them in AI battles to get the hang of it. You need a keyhole, hulldown location where can ambush a single tank, then hightail it out of there in forward and head for the next ambush point. And remember to reverse into your next firing position.

Remember, practice on them vs. the AI before trying against a human opponent. That allows one to screw up with them a few times without consequences.

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Originally posted by MikeyD:

The story goes that they were roundly despised by the troops when they were first issued, and there was general celebration when they were eventually swapped-out after a brief career for proper towed 17 pounders.

Sorta the same reaction to the archer in the game!

I don't think that story is correct, since I do not believe they were ever changed for towed 17-pdrs, and instead remained in service to the end of the war (even beyond, I guess).
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