Kobal2 Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Is there any way to KO a bunker with arty ? If so, what kind of a gun would be required to blow a wooden bunker ? A concrete bunker ? As of now, every bunker I've dealt with I smoked, then stormed with infantry, but I stumble upon a scenario in which the ennemy has a really well-designed bunker network : a couple of AT bunkers, covered by a number of MG bunkers. Can't smoke them long enough for my infantry to storm them (besides, AI's got platoons of infantry between me and the bunkers), can't brew 'em with tanks, since they're porked by those AT bunkers. What's the solution to this puzzle ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Krupp Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Are all the bunkers concrete? Wooden bunkers can be taken out by artillery alright, though still pretty high cal and it'd want to be accurate fire too, so an experienced spotter with a direct like of sight is a must. As for concrete bunkers, I've never seen one taken down by arty....you should probably concentrate on the wooden bunkers to open up a few gaps for your infantry to get up close and personal....it ain't gonna be easy and chances are little timmy won't be going back to moma but war is hell.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 20mm autocannon armed cars will kill the concrete bunkers in no time. They take longer for the wooden ones, though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mies Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I have recently read a book written by Charles Whiting called "The Siegfriedlinie" ISBN 9044925458 (I think). Anyway it describes in detail the problems the Allied infantry faced in getting through that formidable organized defensive line. They had the same problem as you have now. Well dug in bunkers with covering lines of sight and setup for a defence in depth. Also a lot of places weren’t accessible with or by heavy armour so the infantry was left to fend for itself. They basically did what you probably need to try and what is suggested above. Try to pick out “the weakest spot” and force a breakthrough. Once your through (that is if you make it) you should have the opportunity to attack the bunkers from behind. Don’t give up on the smoke because that does give some needed cover. I would think smoke is better spend ammo than HE as that will only knock of some fragments from the bunkers. Also some pioneers or troops with satchel charges will help. Anyway, just my 2 cents. Mies 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 If you have tanks - 75mm and above can kill wooden bunkers. 88L71 might kill concrete bunkers. Keyhole many tanks on few bunkers. The big disadvantage of the bunkers is they can't move. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotless Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 The key is to isolate, isolate, isolate. Pick apart the network one element at a time if you can. Terrain is best, of course. Find the spot that only one AT bunker can see. Or create that keyhole with smoke. If the terrain is unfavorable, you are in for a rough time, no matter how you cut it. Mines, wire, trenched and impenetrable flat terrain (rough) make things even more complicated. They don't call it countermobility for nothing, I suppose... If you have indirect smoke, get some in front of the AT bunkers long enough to get defilade on one or more: get outside their fire arcs and you can pick off the MG bunkers. It is risky moving armor without cover, but your best bet is to out maneuver them. Alternatively, if you have direct-fire smoke, smoke all bunkers but one, and use shoot and scoot berm drills to overwhelm one bunker with many tanks. This is dicey at best, but if you split the angles right, you can have tanks moving in a wave fashion and not expose any one tank to too much fire. AT guns are hellishly accurate, but you can overpower them with 3 or more tanks. Once you have 1 piece of the puzzle out, you should be able to lather rinse repeat if you still have smoke, or exploit the lost firing arc to gain advantage on 1 or more MG bunkers, reverting back to the infantry assault. High volume, accurate weapons are indeed good at busting bunkers too. The 20mm, and to a lesser extent 37mm, is a great tool here. HE is great, but if you miss, you are not going to win the ROF fight with a bunker. The more steel on there the better. If you have both available, first over the berm is the 20mm, as each hit, killer or not, tends to suppress the bunker. That can offer a few needed seconds for larger caliber HE to do the work. Another helpful idea is to get "ranged in" with area fire next to the bunker while still out of direct LOS. That can make the difference in the first- or second-round hit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Krupp Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 btw, is this a scenario or QB? If its a scenario I'd be interested to get my hands on it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobal2 Posted June 23, 2004 Author Share Posted June 23, 2004 @Arthur : it's a scenario called "Valley of Trouble". And yes, they're all concrete. I think the way to deal with them is by making good use of the 2 105 Tommy-cookers you're given, but I'm not sure I want to take a chance exposing them to the AT bunker (or to hidden AT guns, for that matter). The one thing I have in liberal amounts is arty, (2 81mm mortar FOs, 2 105, each with loads of ammo and an excellent field of view) so I think I'll try and smoke them long enough for my engineers to close in - thankfully the terrain is not that open, lots of trees and a big hill to hide tanks behind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junk2drive Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 ive tried usa 155s, no luck one thing that worked in another wargame was to go around them, and just leave them behind. that wouldnt work if reinf. have to go past them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Valley of Trouble? Wasn't that one of the CMBO demo scenarios? I'm sure I regularly KO'd bunkers with 105 modules. The rest of the time it was massed tank fire or outflanking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Ahhh. . . Good 'ol VoT -- that's one of the original CMBO scenarios. I assume it's been remade for CMAK. In CMBO, AT Pillboxes actually had a narrow slice of arc at the very edge of thier firing arc. A tank sitting in this arc could potentially get a firing slit hit (though it could take quite a few shots), but the bunker couldn't fire back. The one difficulty is that the arc is quite narrow, and the only way to find it is to drive your tank up to where you think it is and see if the pillbox shoots back. If the pillbox doesn't shoot back, and you're still getting at least a "Very Rare" kill chance, you're in the "free shot" zone. I'm not sure if this tactic still works in CMAK (I was never sure if this bunker vulnerability was a 'feature' or a 'bug'), but it was while playing VoT for the first time that I actually discovered this tactic quite by accident -- there an ideal tank position to execute this technique on the left flank near the farm at the top of the hill that I stumbled upon. At least in CMBO, if you drove one of your Sherman 105s up the road on the extreme left, to just below the crest, you could get a narrow LOS to the center AT pillboxes within the narrow 'free shot' arc, and eventually blow it away. Once I got that Pillbox, it scenario became considerably easier, as this opened up a 'chink' in the defensive network, giving me room to maneuver and KO the other bunkers. Cheers, YD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Paulus Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 It makes me remember a game (CMBO - The Wrong Turn) where I knocked out a concrete 75mm bunker with 3 60mm mortars ... they did light a fire in the area ! The crew was forced to abandon the bunker ... I was astonished, as far as I thought there was no hope Anyway I think the best way to destroy bunkers is to assault them with infantry, or as said before, destroy them with heavy tanks. For example, JS-2 tanks easily destroy concrete bunkers, even against Pak40 75mm guns. (It is less dangerous at long distance though) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.