John D Salt Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Originally posted by Mick15: And going on... After a quick google search the battalion establishment at this time did include 4 A/T guns (Feel I should have known that). Battalion history mentions 2pdrs in training just before leaving the UK. So reasonable grounds for going for the clear account of the 6pdrs of 72nd A/T regiment plus up to 4 x 2pdrs and prime movers on the 2nd Hants establishment. Circumstanial evidence being - as John Salt pointed out - the 2nd Hants numbers reported moving to Tebourba on the 29/11 were close to full establishment (less LOB). The outline orbats at the back of Messenger's "The Tunisian Campaign" say that an infantry battalion's ATk platoon should have 4 guns in Eighth Army, 8 guns in First. Mark Bevis' "British and Commonwealth Armies 1939-43" (Helion & Co, Solihull, 2001) gives all British inf bns of the time 8 guns in 2 ATk pls. The book is quite detailed, but badly lacking in references to sources, and seems to have drawn mostly on Nafzigerry things Rune has already seen. FWIW, Bevis gives a different org for the sabre squadrons of Blade Force, saying each had a Sqn HQ of 2 x Valentine 2-pdr or 2 x Crusader CS, 2 troops of 3 x Crusader III and 1 x Crusader II, and 2 troops of 3 x Valentine 2-pdr and 1 x Valentine 6-pdr. All the best, John. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 General comment: I've got Bevis' 44-45 volume, and to be honest, I wasn't very impressed with it. It is ok for generic stuff, but detail and accuracy are pretty bad. I don't know what the earlier volume is like, but based on the later one I'd be a bit dubious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 Jon, John and Kingy, Just sent you a revised version. Hopefully if no one has any other corrections, it will be ready for play testing. One player as German or if two player, stronger player MUST be German, as the scenario is as historical as I can make it. Let me know if any more revisions in the briefings. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 rune, Source: "OLD IRONSIDES": The Battle History of the 1st Armored Division p. 65 First Contact with Axis Troops 2/13 Armored arrives Beja area afternoon of 24 November; Mayshark has Co+ with "an assault gun, an ammunition carrier, a medical halftrack, and two extra jeeps" and starts "northward toward Djebebel Abiod in the dark." Refueling is done from a convoy met en route and part of the route direction is provided by a British liaison officer. 36 Brigade group attack begins at dawn, with axis of Djebel Abiod-Sedjenane-Bizerte road. Germans had withdrawn through Sedjenane, leaving only rearguards and mines. Roads and bridges all thoroughly mined, and 2/13's tanks were too heavy for bridges Royal Engineers built, forcing tearing down of wadi walls, wadi floor reinforcement, etc. Took two days to get 2/13's tanks to forward position, "close to that from which Brigadier Kent-Lemmon's command was attacking. There Mayshark's company could be of no service until the enemy had been cleared from two controlling heights." p.66 "The British infantry attacked courageously, repeatedly, and unsuccessfully," ultimately taking one hill but being unable to keep it under withering fire and later counterattack from the other, eventually bringing the entire attack to a halt at the Jefna position. Thus, Company E "remained in reserve until called back on 1-2 December to the Medjerda Valley where it was needed for immediate commitment." As the text makes clear elsewhere the "assault guns" are 75mm armed U.S. halftracks. rune, you really need to get a look at a copy of this book, for the level of detail is simply phenomenal, to include a fortified farmhouse, encounter with an Italian armored probe, quantity of German tacair, composition of the initial Panzer attack, devasting effect of friendly tacair attack on TD company, combat use of a UI British paratroop company, mention of 5 Northamptons, superb discussion of military geography, etc. 25 pages of must read material including a hachure map of the overall battle, showing movements of Blade Force, CCB, and the German counterattacks. Hope this helps. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 I read of Colonel Frost's drop that went bad. Also the TD were waving at the p-38s, when they turned around and attacked them. Things had gotten so bad for the Army Air Corp, in all of Africa, they only had 40 P-38s working, and that was it. I will look into getting the book. However, I highly recommend Tigers in Combat I by Wolfgang Schneider. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 Oh, and for everyone else, draft 2 now ready for testing...anyone interested? Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 rune, Would love to, but I don't own one. Donations welcome, though! If this is one of those gorgeous Fedorowicz books, then I saw a friend's copy back in Georgia years ago. Drool! The multipass per P-38 strike put an entire TD company out of action, with practically every M6 TD (the 37mm SP) rendered at least temporarily hors de combat. Personnel casualties were significant, too, both KIA and WIA. Details are in the book. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Originally posted by John Kettler: The multipass per P-38 strike put an entire TD company out of action, with practically every M6 TD (the 37mm SP) rendered at least temporarily hors de combat. Personnel casualties were significant, too, both KIA and WIA. Details are in the book.Harry Yeid's book on TDs also mentions this incident. Just as a reminder, Harry has been an occasional poster on this forum. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick15 Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 After reading John kettler's last post and putting "Old Ironsides+1942" into google these came back. http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Article.asp?ArticleID=349 and this http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Article.asp?ArticleID=391 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Mick15, Nice finds! And what gifts to would be scenario designers! rune, I see now that I had just enough of a brain interrupt that I failed to notice the date you wanted, so gave you an earlier one than you'd asked for. Do you still need the 2/13 Armored's location on 2 December? Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 Actually I had already seen those web pages, which match the German account, the British accounts vary a little. Everything does point to a platoon of Lees near the British position in the olive groves slightly to the NE of the town. You have to ignore their scenario setups, they are incorrect, the railroad running N-S was well east of that position. I have some better maps, and pulled up the area in Google Earth. I posted the scenario to the proving ground to see how it plays out. I expect it to be difficult for the Axis player. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ng cavscout Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Hey rune, I would be interested in trying your scenario. You have my email addy, talk to you later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 rune, If I'm reading my previously cited source correctly, per pages 76 and 77, the disposition of the 2/13 Armored was: 2/13 Armored counterattacked from the southeast on 1 December "in the early afternoon". Fire support was from Allied artillery, "firing from consolidated positions west of the plain, from the vicinity of Tebourba, and from a position just south of the railroad, between Tebourba and the Tebourba Gap." Todd's light tank (Stuart) battalion (1/13 Armored, less UI combat losses and minus one company left in Oran), Mayshark's Company E (Lees) (reinforced), and Battery A, 27th FA Battalion (4 x 105mm howitzers) "were on the edge of the Tebourba plain by dawn" of 2 December. A resupply convoy (food, ammo, and water) reached Tebourba the night of 1 December, but since it brought no FA ammo for the near ammo exhausted 5th FA Battalion (155mm howizers, SE of Tebourba), 5th FA was ordered back to Medjez-el-Bab. Per page 73, it looks like Bruss had 12 M-3 Lees "in defilade...along the river to the shelter of an olive grove southwest of Djebel Maiana." This was what was left of his command (minus Company E) after an earlier attack mounted to take Djedeida in conjunction with 5 Battalion of what you call the Hamps, an attack which cost him at least a platoon from Company D and some 5 tanks total from Companies D and F. Am sure the American players are going to love being naked under, by CM standards, heavy Luftwaffe attack! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 LOL, won't say anything since I want to keep things a surprise. So the Lees are int he grove where I have them. I think it will play out well, will be difficult for the German player. Sent a copy of the scenario to you. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 rune, Since when is Fliegerkorps X a problem?! Seriously, I deliberately didn't list the quantity, figuring that was scenario sensitive info. Thanks for the scenario! Is it playable vs. the AI from both sides, or should I simply take the Germans and have at die Amerikaner? Regards, John Kettler Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 I'd try as the Germans first. See how it plays out. May need some more turns added, or whatever. Let me know. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 rune, Just took a peek at the scenario after belatedly remembering how to install it, only to discover I couldn't play it because of CMBB in the drive! Selected single player, but was rather surprised to find I had to create a password. Is this a glitch? Hit Command Q (on a Mac), then tried again. This time, it ran the way I expected it to, allowing me to go straight to your gorgeous map. Can practically feel the North African heat! Haven't played the scenario yet, but the briefings look good, albeit with a few semantic glitches here and there. Am looking forward to playing this one, but was a bit shocked to discover the duration! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 John, Had to be a glitch on your end. I know Jon has loaded it up with no problems, and I haven't heard from anyone else with it. Between Google Earth and the maps I have, best I could do with the engine. If I could set variable heights for different objects, I could make it better. Actually witht he size of the map, and walking, it may not be enough turns...however I like to let the player have enough time to develop their plan, no 15 minute rush jobs. Enjoy and let me know what you think. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 rune, I wasn't complaining about the map, which is why I called it gorgeous. Rather, I didn't expect to get a Select the Password box after picking Single Player mode and was wondering whether that had to do with the number of different ways the scenario can be played. As far as the map went, it gave me a much better feel for things than did the tiny hachure map in the 1st AD BATTLE HISTORY, and I had some fun flying over it. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted February 7, 2006 Author Share Posted February 7, 2006 John, No problem, the map was fun to make. Let me know how it plays out... can't adjust much except the air. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick15 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Another post after work has got in the way for a week or so. One little correction. John Kettler wrote Per page 73, ...after an earlier attack mounted to take Djedeida in conjunction with 5 Battalion of what you call the Hamps, The earlier attack was on the 29th in conjunction with the 5th battalion the Northamptonshire Regiment - the Northhamptons from Northants. They would not like being confused with the Hampshire Regiment (from Hants - it is an 'n'), who relieved the Northamptons after their heavy losses in that attack, that night. Very precious about their county names the shandy drinkers! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Mick15, That's what I get for thinnin' 'stead o' knowin'! My lack of British unit knowledge is truly impressive, verging on infinite. Glad somebody caught my ignorance born error. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D Salt Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Originally posted by Mick15: [snips] The earlier attack was on the 29th in conjunction with the 5th battalion the Northamptonshire Regiment - the Northhamptons from Northants. They would not like being confused with the Hampshire Regiment (from Hants - it is an 'n'), who relieved the Northamptons after their heavy losses in that attack, that night. Yes, but the regiment from Hants is properly and officially abbreviated as "Hamps" (see e.g. Joslen). And although the nickname is far from official, this may be the only case in which the spelling "Hampsters" is correct. Originally posted by Mick15: Very precious about their county names the shandy drinkers! Shandy? Yeeetch. All the best, John. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D Salt Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Fie on't, an accursed double-post! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 That shandy really upset you, didn't it? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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