Newbtler Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 My grandpa (Father's side) was in the 180° Ospedale da Campo (Field Hospital), attached to the 1st "Superga" Infantry Division. He was stationed in Sicily (his division was preparing for the air assault of Malta) then was sent in Tunisia and he was captured by the English. I didn't have the chance to know him, as he died in 1982 by cancer as I was just born. My dad told me he didn't speak much about his war experiences. He just told him that it was an inferno, they were behind the first lines, out of medicins and often had to "steal" many bottles of whiskey from British prisoners to ease the pain of the sufferings. Only 4 or 5 men alive in his small unit, including a medical captain who went to become his friend for the remainder of his life. He sometimes remembered terrific wounds, stomachs opened, and many and many soldiers (Allies and Axis) crying for their loved ones. After the war he couldn't see blood anymore. Well, he was captured, went on the USS "Vulcan" (I can see that in his POW Card), and then was sent to Gibraltar with the Red Cross. He often spoke very well of the English he got to know. Sometimes he was bombed by night Italian planes while he was there. We still have some pictures of him in the war, and his ID and POW card. His brother fought the partisans in Yugoslavia in some big unit (can't remember which one) and came home safely. He's still alive, 80+ years old and looks like he's 30 or something, amazing. He still drives his car. He told stories about Italian soldiers that were taken prisoners who were dismembered and given to the pigs... Well, he still doesn't like that part of the world and their citizens at all. My grandpa's cousin fought as a Leutenent in the Greek/Albanian campaign and later in Russia in the elite "Julia" Div. Alpina. Survived, came home almost by feet. I think he's still alive, but I've seen him so few times I can't remember him very well. My grandpa (mother's side) was too young to fight. In 1943 he was captured by some German troops in his town of Ariccia (overlooking the Anzio town, 30kms south of Rome) when he was asking them for some food, and passed a night with them, scared to death. He was released later. He still remembers very well German tanks passing in his town coming from the frontline, damaged, dirty and some with blood on them. Sometimes he let me see where these units were, or were the flak was stationed etc. He and his family got to know an Austrian who was saved by my grandpa's father when he cought fire from a light torch. His name was Agustin or something and could speak some italian. He told me so many other stories and tales, I could write for hours. Nice thread btw! Ciao, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Elwen Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 My Grandfather had an eventful career in the services. He enlisted in the cavalry, 18th Hussars in about 1912. He told many stories about the early fights against German Uhlans he had at the very beginning of WW1 when the armies were still mobile. In 1916 he was wounded by artillery fire whilst the regiment were in the trenches just before the Somme offensive. During the Battle of the Somme 2 of his brothers were killed, their names are on the Menin Gate memorial. After coming out of hospital Grandad joined the Royal Flying Corps. He did fly for a bit, however he moved over to the groundcrew side and survived WW1. He met my Grandma in London during the 1920's and they had an amazing married life travelling all over the 'Empire' , my uncles being born in India and Egypt. He related a story about helping repair Amy Johnson's plane when she flew to Australia, by modifying the filter to stop sand getting in. At the start of WW2 Grandad found himself based at the Dockyards supervising the shipment of aircraft overseas, he developed a way of crating them so the planes could be stored as a deck cargo without the salts in the air/sea causing any corrosion to the aircraft. He finally retired in 1946 and passed away in 1971. My grandma did WRVS throughout WW2, her abiding memories were of serving the survivors of Dunkirk tea and cigarettes when they disembarked after the evacuation and their house in Plymouth being blitzed a week after my mother was born, they used to camp out on the downs above the town during the raids. My Great Uncle Frank was in the Royal Engineers during the war, He did bomb disposal during the blitz and later accompanied the Canadian landings at Juno Beach on D Day attached to the 3rd Canadian Div. He often told the story that during the landing he tripped and hurt his ankle, and his driver went to the nearest French village and stole every walking stick he could find so Uncle Frank could stay mobile. He had many other stories as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exSpecForSgt Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Originally posted by zukkov: this is amazing. even with the little tidbits of war stories on this thread, is it any wonder our parents/grandparents don't want to talk about it? in one way it's a shame though, as so much history is lost forever... Yes, it's a shame all that history is being lost. It's a shame it's being 'lost', because that means it will have to be learned all over again by another generation. [-comments deleted, because they're keeping me awake -- just as bad as nightmares-] *sigh* Yes, yes, I know - you =do= want to hear the stories, to learn, to understand, perhaps even to weap. So did I, once. But it hurts too much, mentally, spiritually. The funny stories, even the stupid stories, yeah, sure, no problem. The "seeing the elephant" stories - - sorry, they just hurt too much. I'm sorry. I've said too much. I'll shut up, now. And now that I've deleted most of my comments, =maybe= I can sleep tonight... maybe... [ January 10, 2004, 05:00 AM: Message edited by: exSpecForSgt ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Elwen Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 My Grandfather had an eventful career in the services. He enlisted in the cavalry, 18th Hussars in about 1912. He told many stories about the early fights against German Uhlans he had at the very beginning of WW1 when the armies were still mobile. In 1916 he was wounded by artillery fire whilst the regiment were in the trenches just before the Somme offensive. During the Battle of the Somme 2 of his brothers were killed, their names are on the Menin Gate memorial. After coming out of hospital Grandad joined the Royal Flying Corps. He did fly for a bit, however he moved over to the groundcrew side and survived WW1. He met my Grandma in London during the 1920's and they had an amazing married life travelling all over the 'Empire' , my uncles being born in India and Egypt. He related a story about helping repair Amy Johnson's plane when she flew to Australia, by modifying the filter to stop sand getting in. At the start of WW2 Grandad found himself based at the Dockyards supervising the shipment of aircraft overseas, he developed a way of crating them so the planes could be stored as a deck cargo without the salts in the air/sea causing any corrosion to the aircraft. He finally retired in 1946 and passed away in 1971. My grandma did WRVS throughout WW2, her abiding memories were of serving the survivors of Dunkirk tea and cigarettes when they disembarked after the evacuation and their house in Plymouth being blitzed a week after my mother was born, they used to camp out on the downs above the town during the raids. My Great Uncle Frank was in the Royal Engineers during the war, He did bomb disposal during the blitz and later accompanied the Canadian landings at Juno Beach on D Day attached to the 3rd Canadian Div. He often told the story that during the landing he tripped and hurt his ankle, and his driver went to the nearest French village and stole every walking stick he could find so Uncle Frank could stay mobile. He had many other stories as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exSpecForSgt Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Originally posted by zukkov: this is amazing. even with the little tidbits of war stories on this thread, is it any wonder our parents/grandparents don't want to talk about it? in one way it's a shame though, as so much history is lost forever... Yes, it's a shame all that history is being lost. It's a shame it's being 'lost', because that means it will have to be learned all over again by another generation. [-comments deleted, because they're keeping me awake -- just as bad as nightmares-] *sigh* Yes, yes, I know - you =do= want to hear the stories, to learn, to understand, perhaps even to weap. So did I, once. But it hurts too much, mentally, spiritually. The funny stories, even the stupid stories, yeah, sure, no problem. The "seeing the elephant" stories - - sorry, they just hurt too much. I'm sorry. I've said too much. I'll shut up, now. And now that I've deleted most of my comments, =maybe= I can sleep tonight... maybe... [ January 10, 2004, 05:00 AM: Message edited by: exSpecForSgt ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Elwen Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 My Grandfather had an eventful career in the services. He enlisted in the cavalry, 18th Hussars in about 1912. He told many stories about the early fights against German Uhlans he had at the very beginning of WW1 when the armies were still mobile. In 1916 he was wounded by artillery fire whilst the regiment were in the trenches just before the Somme offensive. During the Battle of the Somme 2 of his brothers were killed, their names are on the Menin Gate memorial. After coming out of hospital Grandad joined the Royal Flying Corps. He did fly for a bit, however he moved over to the groundcrew side and survived WW1. He met my Grandma in London during the 1920's and they had an amazing married life travelling all over the 'Empire' , my uncles being born in India and Egypt. He related a story about helping repair Amy Johnson's plane when she flew to Australia, by modifying the filter to stop sand getting in. At the start of WW2 Grandad found himself based at the Dockyards supervising the shipment of aircraft overseas, he developed a way of crating them so the planes could be stored as a deck cargo without the salts in the air/sea causing any corrosion to the aircraft. He finally retired in 1946 and passed away in 1971. My grandma did WRVS throughout WW2, her abiding memories were of serving the survivors of Dunkirk tea and cigarettes when they disembarked after the evacuation and their house in Plymouth being blitzed a week after my mother was born, they used to camp out on the downs above the town during the raids. My Great Uncle Frank was in the Royal Engineers during the war, He did bomb disposal during the blitz and later accompanied the Canadian landings at Juno Beach on D Day attached to the 3rd Canadian Div. He often told the story that during the landing he tripped and hurt his ankle, and his driver went to the nearest French village and stole every walking stick he could find so Uncle Frank could stay mobile. He had many other stories as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exSpecForSgt Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Originally posted by zukkov: this is amazing. even with the little tidbits of war stories on this thread, is it any wonder our parents/grandparents don't want to talk about it? in one way it's a shame though, as so much history is lost forever... Yes, it's a shame all that history is being lost. It's a shame it's being 'lost', because that means it will have to be learned all over again by another generation. [-comments deleted, because they're keeping me awake -- just as bad as nightmares-] *sigh* Yes, yes, I know - you =do= want to hear the stories, to learn, to understand, perhaps even to weap. So did I, once. But it hurts too much, mentally, spiritually. The funny stories, even the stupid stories, yeah, sure, no problem. The "seeing the elephant" stories - - sorry, they just hurt too much. I'm sorry. I've said too much. I'll shut up, now. And now that I've deleted most of my comments, =maybe= I can sleep tonight... maybe... [ January 10, 2004, 05:00 AM: Message edited by: exSpecForSgt ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tools4fools Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 My grandfather lost his job in 1930 due to the bad economical situation in Germany this time. As his boss new an officer in the military my grandfatehr could sign up; they even "made" him about one inch taller as he was too short for the minimum requirements then... First was with cavalry, became infantry later on. Was a sergeant and served officers in Berlin at the ministry of defense. Stole sets of silver spoons and forks there engraved with RWM (ReichsWehrMinisterium) on which I dine until today. Was offered by an high ranking officer who liked him to do the officers course himself (which was denied to him in the regular selection for officers as he didn't have the needed higher education) but denied as he didn't those guys life style - Champagne parties, whores, gambling... Poland, France and Russia with the infantry unit, then transferred to the gamey "Gebiergsjaeger" mountain troops and transferred to Finland where he fought until the end of the war. In 44 when most experienced officers were dead he was again asked to become an officer, but declined again. Yet he was basically in charge of the company as the Lieutnants always asked him how to execute the orders they got in a way to achieve the mission with minimizing the own losses. Two years as POW, mainly in Poland. Told me a lot of interesting stories about the war, sad ones, funny ones and about the country and its people. He loved the Russian and Finish land as he was from a simple farming family himself. His brother was a Major in the Wehrmacht, dunno much about him except that he got the ironc cross for close assaulting tank(s?)and got home two weeks after the war. Other grandfather was drafted late in the war, was with a Flak unit in Italy, his gun surrendered quickly without firing a shot when being attacked by the allieds. POW in Italy from then on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tools4fools Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 My grandfather lost his job in 1930 due to the bad economical situation in Germany this time. As his boss new an officer in the military my grandfatehr could sign up; they even "made" him about one inch taller as he was too short for the minimum requirements then... First was with cavalry, became infantry later on. Was a sergeant and served officers in Berlin at the ministry of defense. Stole sets of silver spoons and forks there engraved with RWM (ReichsWehrMinisterium) on which I dine until today. Was offered by an high ranking officer who liked him to do the officers course himself (which was denied to him in the regular selection for officers as he didn't have the needed higher education) but denied as he didn't those guys life style - Champagne parties, whores, gambling... Poland, France and Russia with the infantry unit, then transferred to the gamey "Gebiergsjaeger" mountain troops and transferred to Finland where he fought until the end of the war. In 44 when most experienced officers were dead he was again asked to become an officer, but declined again. Yet he was basically in charge of the company as the Lieutnants always asked him how to execute the orders they got in a way to achieve the mission with minimizing the own losses. Two years as POW, mainly in Poland. Told me a lot of interesting stories about the war, sad ones, funny ones and about the country and its people. He loved the Russian and Finish land as he was from a simple farming family himself. His brother was a Major in the Wehrmacht, dunno much about him except that he got the ironc cross for close assaulting tank(s?)and got home two weeks after the war. Other grandfather was drafted late in the war, was with a Flak unit in Italy, his gun surrendered quickly without firing a shot when being attacked by the allieds. POW in Italy from then on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tools4fools Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 My grandfather lost his job in 1930 due to the bad economical situation in Germany this time. As his boss new an officer in the military my grandfatehr could sign up; they even "made" him about one inch taller as he was too short for the minimum requirements then... First was with cavalry, became infantry later on. Was a sergeant and served officers in Berlin at the ministry of defense. Stole sets of silver spoons and forks there engraved with RWM (ReichsWehrMinisterium) on which I dine until today. Was offered by an high ranking officer who liked him to do the officers course himself (which was denied to him in the regular selection for officers as he didn't have the needed higher education) but denied as he didn't those guys life style - Champagne parties, whores, gambling... Poland, France and Russia with the infantry unit, then transferred to the gamey "Gebiergsjaeger" mountain troops and transferred to Finland where he fought until the end of the war. In 44 when most experienced officers were dead he was again asked to become an officer, but declined again. Yet he was basically in charge of the company as the Lieutnants always asked him how to execute the orders they got in a way to achieve the mission with minimizing the own losses. Two years as POW, mainly in Poland. Told me a lot of interesting stories about the war, sad ones, funny ones and about the country and its people. He loved the Russian and Finish land as he was from a simple farming family himself. His brother was a Major in the Wehrmacht, dunno much about him except that he got the ironc cross for close assaulting tank(s?)and got home two weeks after the war. Other grandfather was drafted late in the war, was with a Flak unit in Italy, his gun surrendered quickly without firing a shot when being attacked by the allieds. POW in Italy from then on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 One of my grandfathers served the whole war as a flak gunner in the Ruhrgebiet. He had several pictures of him posing in front of his 88. Don't know much else, but he still believed in the Nazi ideals of his youth and had a Hitler bust standing in his room till the late eighties. My other grandfather was quite the opposite. He was apolitical in his youth and nearly failed his apprenticeship as a mechanic, because he couldn't answer the question about Hitlers birthday. ("Hitler was an idiot" was the quote he used most when talking about his youth). When war came he was drafted into a Luftwaffe support unit as a truck driver. France, Balkans and then Russia. Assigned to Army Group South after Barbarossa, he went all the way through Russia ("unbelievably large") down to the Caucasus. ("very,very hot there") Late in the war, some officers went around looking for soldiers to serve as infantry. You could choose between Infantry or Fallschirmjaeger. He chose Fallschirmjaeger but mentioned several times, that there was a field on that paper he had to sign, reading "Available for jumps: YES/NO". He crossed out "NO" as big as he could. ("I'm not TOTALLY STUPID, getting myself shot in the air while I'm hanging on one of those things!") He said there never was a feeling of belonging to an elite. It was always "us" (meaning the people just drafted into the FJ to fill the ranks) and the "real" Fallschirmjaeger. (of whom he described several as the "craziest SOB's I've met in the whole war". ) In Winter 44 he got captured and put into a French POW camp. He said he only survived because one cook gave him something extra from time to time, as many others were starved to death or fell victim to a Polish security patrol, who deliberately shot a handful of prisoners every night they were on duty. It wasn't much he told about the war, mostly funny episodes and an occasional tidbit of tragedy (execution of a partisan woman who hurled a handgrenade into a room filled with officers, Comrades committing suicide on the long retreat in 44, pulling the pins from their grenades while walking). Most of the stories he shared, dealt whith the time before the war and the adventures he lived through in the late thirties, together with his friends. Almost all of the stories ended with: "He later fell in XYZ". As a resume he felt that Hitler had robbed him of the best time of his life, his friends and his home. "There was nothing for me. When I had finished my apprenticeship and was ready to start living, the war came and took it all away" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 One of my grandfathers served the whole war as a flak gunner in the Ruhrgebiet. He had several pictures of him posing in front of his 88. Don't know much else, but he still believed in the Nazi ideals of his youth and had a Hitler bust standing in his room till the late eighties. My other grandfather was quite the opposite. He was apolitical in his youth and nearly failed his apprenticeship as a mechanic, because he couldn't answer the question about Hitlers birthday. ("Hitler was an idiot" was the quote he used most when talking about his youth). When war came he was drafted into a Luftwaffe support unit as a truck driver. France, Balkans and then Russia. Assigned to Army Group South after Barbarossa, he went all the way through Russia ("unbelievably large") down to the Caucasus. ("very,very hot there") Late in the war, some officers went around looking for soldiers to serve as infantry. You could choose between Infantry or Fallschirmjaeger. He chose Fallschirmjaeger but mentioned several times, that there was a field on that paper he had to sign, reading "Available for jumps: YES/NO". He crossed out "NO" as big as he could. ("I'm not TOTALLY STUPID, getting myself shot in the air while I'm hanging on one of those things!") He said there never was a feeling of belonging to an elite. It was always "us" (meaning the people just drafted into the FJ to fill the ranks) and the "real" Fallschirmjaeger. (of whom he described several as the "craziest SOB's I've met in the whole war". ) In Winter 44 he got captured and put into a French POW camp. He said he only survived because one cook gave him something extra from time to time, as many others were starved to death or fell victim to a Polish security patrol, who deliberately shot a handful of prisoners every night they were on duty. It wasn't much he told about the war, mostly funny episodes and an occasional tidbit of tragedy (execution of a partisan woman who hurled a handgrenade into a room filled with officers, Comrades committing suicide on the long retreat in 44, pulling the pins from their grenades while walking). Most of the stories he shared, dealt whith the time before the war and the adventures he lived through in the late thirties, together with his friends. Almost all of the stories ended with: "He later fell in XYZ". As a resume he felt that Hitler had robbed him of the best time of his life, his friends and his home. "There was nothing for me. When I had finished my apprenticeship and was ready to start living, the war came and took it all away" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 One of my grandfathers served the whole war as a flak gunner in the Ruhrgebiet. He had several pictures of him posing in front of his 88. Don't know much else, but he still believed in the Nazi ideals of his youth and had a Hitler bust standing in his room till the late eighties. My other grandfather was quite the opposite. He was apolitical in his youth and nearly failed his apprenticeship as a mechanic, because he couldn't answer the question about Hitlers birthday. ("Hitler was an idiot" was the quote he used most when talking about his youth). When war came he was drafted into a Luftwaffe support unit as a truck driver. France, Balkans and then Russia. Assigned to Army Group South after Barbarossa, he went all the way through Russia ("unbelievably large") down to the Caucasus. ("very,very hot there") Late in the war, some officers went around looking for soldiers to serve as infantry. You could choose between Infantry or Fallschirmjaeger. He chose Fallschirmjaeger but mentioned several times, that there was a field on that paper he had to sign, reading "Available for jumps: YES/NO". He crossed out "NO" as big as he could. ("I'm not TOTALLY STUPID, getting myself shot in the air while I'm hanging on one of those things!") He said there never was a feeling of belonging to an elite. It was always "us" (meaning the people just drafted into the FJ to fill the ranks) and the "real" Fallschirmjaeger. (of whom he described several as the "craziest SOB's I've met in the whole war". ) In Winter 44 he got captured and put into a French POW camp. He said he only survived because one cook gave him something extra from time to time, as many others were starved to death or fell victim to a Polish security patrol, who deliberately shot a handful of prisoners every night they were on duty. It wasn't much he told about the war, mostly funny episodes and an occasional tidbit of tragedy (execution of a partisan woman who hurled a handgrenade into a room filled with officers, Comrades committing suicide on the long retreat in 44, pulling the pins from their grenades while walking). Most of the stories he shared, dealt whith the time before the war and the adventures he lived through in the late thirties, together with his friends. Almost all of the stories ended with: "He later fell in XYZ". As a resume he felt that Hitler had robbed him of the best time of his life, his friends and his home. "There was nothing for me. When I had finished my apprenticeship and was ready to start living, the war came and took it all away" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Originally posted by exSpecForSgt: I'm sorry. I've said too much. I'll shut up, now. No, that was well written. You are right in that the experience itself cannot be delivered, just like you cannot explain what it feels like to have a mental trauma or deep depression to someone who has never experienced anything like that. But I do think that it is important to know. Not for comic accounts... but so that we would better understand how terribly wrong things can go. I don't feel guilt playing games like CM, but we need to be careful not to forget that there are aspects of war that no game can simulate (FORTUNATELY). Just to think that 60 years ago some relative of mine might have been aiming his rifle at a relative of some of our Russian board members and now I might just challenge him for a friendly match of CM - it's hard to understand. I am currently reading the unit history of Finnish Infantry Regiment 48. Within it are also some poems and drawings made by one of the unit's soldiers, Helmer Selin, during the war. They really add a new dimension to the book, the dimension of human suffering. Here's one, "Scream", dated June 22nd 1944: "I saw your mouth opened for scream and the despair in your eyes even though your voice was swallowed by hell. I saw your outreaching arms and the red fountains from your arteries but I couldn't-. No-one could. -No. And something inside me died also with You in midsummer of fourty-four when a barrage preparing an onslaught beat the earthless ground in Tali in the rocks of Konkkala. The length of your unheard death scream - the length of the rest of my life." It is accompanied by a grim drawing of a man lying in ground with his arms reaching for help and a painful, frightened expression on his face. And while I should hopefully never completely understand what the artist went through, it tells me that it was something very powerful and scary. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Originally posted by exSpecForSgt: I'm sorry. I've said too much. I'll shut up, now. No, that was well written. You are right in that the experience itself cannot be delivered, just like you cannot explain what it feels like to have a mental trauma or deep depression to someone who has never experienced anything like that. But I do think that it is important to know. Not for comic accounts... but so that we would better understand how terribly wrong things can go. I don't feel guilt playing games like CM, but we need to be careful not to forget that there are aspects of war that no game can simulate (FORTUNATELY). Just to think that 60 years ago some relative of mine might have been aiming his rifle at a relative of some of our Russian board members and now I might just challenge him for a friendly match of CM - it's hard to understand. I am currently reading the unit history of Finnish Infantry Regiment 48. Within it are also some poems and drawings made by one of the unit's soldiers, Helmer Selin, during the war. They really add a new dimension to the book, the dimension of human suffering. Here's one, "Scream", dated June 22nd 1944: "I saw your mouth opened for scream and the despair in your eyes even though your voice was swallowed by hell. I saw your outreaching arms and the red fountains from your arteries but I couldn't-. No-one could. -No. And something inside me died also with You in midsummer of fourty-four when a barrage preparing an onslaught beat the earthless ground in Tali in the rocks of Konkkala. The length of your unheard death scream - the length of the rest of my life." It is accompanied by a grim drawing of a man lying in ground with his arms reaching for help and a painful, frightened expression on his face. And while I should hopefully never completely understand what the artist went through, it tells me that it was something very powerful and scary. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Originally posted by exSpecForSgt: I'm sorry. I've said too much. I'll shut up, now. No, that was well written. You are right in that the experience itself cannot be delivered, just like you cannot explain what it feels like to have a mental trauma or deep depression to someone who has never experienced anything like that. But I do think that it is important to know. Not for comic accounts... but so that we would better understand how terribly wrong things can go. I don't feel guilt playing games like CM, but we need to be careful not to forget that there are aspects of war that no game can simulate (FORTUNATELY). Just to think that 60 years ago some relative of mine might have been aiming his rifle at a relative of some of our Russian board members and now I might just challenge him for a friendly match of CM - it's hard to understand. I am currently reading the unit history of Finnish Infantry Regiment 48. Within it are also some poems and drawings made by one of the unit's soldiers, Helmer Selin, during the war. They really add a new dimension to the book, the dimension of human suffering. Here's one, "Scream", dated June 22nd 1944: "I saw your mouth opened for scream and the despair in your eyes even though your voice was swallowed by hell. I saw your outreaching arms and the red fountains from your arteries but I couldn't-. No-one could. -No. And something inside me died also with You in midsummer of fourty-four when a barrage preparing an onslaught beat the earthless ground in Tali in the rocks of Konkkala. The length of your unheard death scream - the length of the rest of my life." It is accompanied by a grim drawing of a man lying in ground with his arms reaching for help and a painful, frightened expression on his face. And while I should hopefully never completely understand what the artist went through, it tells me that it was something very powerful and scary. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Both of my grandfathers served in the Finnish Armed Forces, as did both of my wife's grandfathers. All four are deceased now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Both of my grandfathers served in the Finnish Armed Forces, as did both of my wife's grandfathers. All four are deceased now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Both of my grandfathers served in the Finnish Armed Forces, as did both of my wife's grandfathers. All four are deceased now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Yossarian0815[jby] Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 paternal side: my father was in the US-infantry in the ETO (just managed to get in in 1945). maternal side: my grandfather was a lt. in the Wehrmacht artillery from 1939 to the battle of the bulge, where he was captured by US forces. his three brothers were all captured by the soviets during stalingrad (and survived!). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Yossarian0815[jby] Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 paternal side: my father was in the US-infantry in the ETO (just managed to get in in 1945). maternal side: my grandfather was a lt. in the Wehrmacht artillery from 1939 to the battle of the bulge, where he was captured by US forces. his three brothers were all captured by the soviets during stalingrad (and survived!). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Yossarian0815[jby] Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 paternal side: my father was in the US-infantry in the ETO (just managed to get in in 1945). maternal side: my grandfather was a lt. in the Wehrmacht artillery from 1939 to the battle of the bulge, where he was captured by US forces. his three brothers were all captured by the soviets during stalingrad (and survived!). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Graeme Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 My father was in the Royal Canadian Airforce in WW2. Was an instructor in the Commonwealth Air Training Program for a while, then went to England and flew Wellington bombers against the Germans. Will NOT talk about his war experience. After the war one of Canada's first jet fighter pilots (flying Vampires). Still alive, and physically healthier than anyone else in the family. My paternal grandfather was in the 6th Battalion Canadian Scottish in WW1. Wounded several times. After the war wrote his unpublished memoirs titled 'War! What Of It?' which is full of interesting stuff, like the time he was trying to get some sleep in a dugout but a persistent hammering kept him awake. Went up into the trench and found one of his mates striking the nose of a dud German shell with a hammer because he wanted to "knock it open and see what's inside"! My maternal grandfather served in the Princess Patricia regiment (Canadian) in WW1, was gassed, lost the use of his legs and had to be taught how to walk all over again. Came out of the war hating all politicians and generals. And the sight of bare feet. One time as a stretcher bearer he went to shift a corpse by one of its feet and the foot came off in his hands! Hence his dislike of feet, even his own. My brother, recently retired, served his entire working life in the Canadian Airforce, first as an airplane mechanic, then up the ranks, crew chief, line chief, eventually highest ranking Warrant Officer (= Colonel), without ever seeing combat. And oh yes, my father's youngest brother joined the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada at the end of the war, worked his way up thru the ranks, was Military Attache for Canada in Egypt (was present when Sadat was assassinated... my uncle sitting in the front row of the reviewing stand with his wife, hurled her down behind a concrete parapet then lay on top... later commented that few military attaches of the diplomatic corps assembled were hurt because they took cover as soon as the shooting began, whereas many of the civilian diplomats stood up to see what was happening and got shot...). Myself, didn't like the idea of getting up really early and running twenty miles, so opted not to join the military. But have great appreciation and knowledge of same because of my family's involvement over 3 generations. Or 4, if my greatgrandfather writing poetry about Canada's contribution to the Boer war counts.... (of course not!)... but at least he cared. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Graeme Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 My father was in the Royal Canadian Airforce in WW2. Was an instructor in the Commonwealth Air Training Program for a while, then went to England and flew Wellington bombers against the Germans. Will NOT talk about his war experience. After the war one of Canada's first jet fighter pilots (flying Vampires). Still alive, and physically healthier than anyone else in the family. My paternal grandfather was in the 6th Battalion Canadian Scottish in WW1. Wounded several times. After the war wrote his unpublished memoirs titled 'War! What Of It?' which is full of interesting stuff, like the time he was trying to get some sleep in a dugout but a persistent hammering kept him awake. Went up into the trench and found one of his mates striking the nose of a dud German shell with a hammer because he wanted to "knock it open and see what's inside"! My maternal grandfather served in the Princess Patricia regiment (Canadian) in WW1, was gassed, lost the use of his legs and had to be taught how to walk all over again. Came out of the war hating all politicians and generals. And the sight of bare feet. One time as a stretcher bearer he went to shift a corpse by one of its feet and the foot came off in his hands! Hence his dislike of feet, even his own. My brother, recently retired, served his entire working life in the Canadian Airforce, first as an airplane mechanic, then up the ranks, crew chief, line chief, eventually highest ranking Warrant Officer (= Colonel), without ever seeing combat. And oh yes, my father's youngest brother joined the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada at the end of the war, worked his way up thru the ranks, was Military Attache for Canada in Egypt (was present when Sadat was assassinated... my uncle sitting in the front row of the reviewing stand with his wife, hurled her down behind a concrete parapet then lay on top... later commented that few military attaches of the diplomatic corps assembled were hurt because they took cover as soon as the shooting began, whereas many of the civilian diplomats stood up to see what was happening and got shot...). Myself, didn't like the idea of getting up really early and running twenty miles, so opted not to join the military. But have great appreciation and knowledge of same because of my family's involvement over 3 generations. Or 4, if my greatgrandfather writing poetry about Canada's contribution to the Boer war counts.... (of course not!)... but at least he cared. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Graeme Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 My father was in the Royal Canadian Airforce in WW2. Was an instructor in the Commonwealth Air Training Program for a while, then went to England and flew Wellington bombers against the Germans. Will NOT talk about his war experience. After the war one of Canada's first jet fighter pilots (flying Vampires). Still alive, and physically healthier than anyone else in the family. My paternal grandfather was in the 6th Battalion Canadian Scottish in WW1. Wounded several times. After the war wrote his unpublished memoirs titled 'War! What Of It?' which is full of interesting stuff, like the time he was trying to get some sleep in a dugout but a persistent hammering kept him awake. Went up into the trench and found one of his mates striking the nose of a dud German shell with a hammer because he wanted to "knock it open and see what's inside"! My maternal grandfather served in the Princess Patricia regiment (Canadian) in WW1, was gassed, lost the use of his legs and had to be taught how to walk all over again. Came out of the war hating all politicians and generals. And the sight of bare feet. One time as a stretcher bearer he went to shift a corpse by one of its feet and the foot came off in his hands! Hence his dislike of feet, even his own. My brother, recently retired, served his entire working life in the Canadian Airforce, first as an airplane mechanic, then up the ranks, crew chief, line chief, eventually highest ranking Warrant Officer (= Colonel), without ever seeing combat. And oh yes, my father's youngest brother joined the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada at the end of the war, worked his way up thru the ranks, was Military Attache for Canada in Egypt (was present when Sadat was assassinated... my uncle sitting in the front row of the reviewing stand with his wife, hurled her down behind a concrete parapet then lay on top... later commented that few military attaches of the diplomatic corps assembled were hurt because they took cover as soon as the shooting began, whereas many of the civilian diplomats stood up to see what was happening and got shot...). Myself, didn't like the idea of getting up really early and running twenty miles, so opted not to join the military. But have great appreciation and knowledge of same because of my family's involvement over 3 generations. Or 4, if my greatgrandfather writing poetry about Canada's contribution to the Boer war counts.... (of course not!)... but at least he cared. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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