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Family Ties to World War II: A New Poll


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My father was an RAF air gunner on Sunderlands based at Koggala in Ceylon and then later(postwar) in India. He is in the photograph of 240 squadron arranged in front of a Sunderland in the book "Wings of the Dawning".

His father (my grandfather) was shot in the head on the Somme in 1916 and had a metal plate fitted in his skull. He lived into his nineties. When in hospital a few years ago, the staff were suprised that such technology was used so long ago.

My mother was a child living in Coventry when it was bombed.

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My father was an RAF air gunner on Sunderlands based at Koggala in Ceylon and then later(postwar) in India. He is in the photograph of 240 squadron arranged in front of a Sunderland in the book "Wings of the Dawning".

His father (my grandfather) was shot in the head on the Somme in 1916 and had a metal plate fitted in his skull. He lived into his nineties. When in hospital a few years ago, the staff were suprised that such technology was used so long ago.

My mother was a child living in Coventry when it was bombed.

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Originally posted by Carl Puppchen:

My dad also said that more Vietnam vets killed themselves after the war than died in the war. At least the WW2 vets came home as heroes.

I thought quite a bit before I started this reply, but decided the possible slur needed responding to, probably because I've had to deal with this very same "attitude" from my own father and most of the 'older adults' (the WWII generation) I know.

Yes, the WWII vets came home as "heroes". The entire country was behind them, supported them, etc, etc, and, quite frankly, because they "won". Also, they went out in groups and came back in groups. That may not sound like much, but it means quite a lot, believe me.

The fiasco in Viet Nam was a completely different situation. The country did not support the troops =or= why we were there. =To= =this= =day=, very few of the American populace know, or want to know, what that was all about. In the end, "we" "lost", something this (overly?) proud country has never had to deal with before. In the 'beginning', troops were sent over there in units, but quite soon people were being sent to units one or two at a time, like chunky bits being fed into a meat-grinder, and just as impersonally, too.

And then, as if all this wasn't bad enough, most of the veterans' organizations that were there to help the WWII vets adjust, to help them heal inside, to give them support ... deliberately turned their backs on the VN vet. We were just a bunch of "whiners", "losers", "dope-heads", "baby-killers", blah, blah, blah ad nauseum.

So, you have =terrible= memories and nightmares, can't sleep or adjust or relate to other people, and people are always looking at you like you're some kind of sick "monster". But far, far worse than all of that, you can now 'see' quite clearly where the government has been and is and continues to lie to the populace and manipulates them shamelessly ... and there is =NOTHING= you can do or say about it, because people flat =refuse= to listen to or believe you. In fact, the more you =prove= your point, the angrier they get, =at= =YOU=!!

Yeah, sure, the WWII vets were all "heroes" and more VN vets committed suicide than were killed in action. So explain to me why this is supposed to 'surprise' me..... (And don't even get me started on that rat-b@st@rd Bush...! Just. Don't.)

BTW, you all might find the book "On Killing" interesting and useful reading. It is used as a text at West Point, among other things.

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Originally posted by Carl Puppchen:

My dad also said that more Vietnam vets killed themselves after the war than died in the war. At least the WW2 vets came home as heroes.

I thought quite a bit before I started this reply, but decided the possible slur needed responding to, probably because I've had to deal with this very same "attitude" from my own father and most of the 'older adults' (the WWII generation) I know.

Yes, the WWII vets came home as "heroes". The entire country was behind them, supported them, etc, etc, and, quite frankly, because they "won". Also, they went out in groups and came back in groups. That may not sound like much, but it means quite a lot, believe me.

The fiasco in Viet Nam was a completely different situation. The country did not support the troops =or= why we were there. =To= =this= =day=, very few of the American populace know, or want to know, what that was all about. In the end, "we" "lost", something this (overly?) proud country has never had to deal with before. In the 'beginning', troops were sent over there in units, but quite soon people were being sent to units one or two at a time, like chunky bits being fed into a meat-grinder, and just as impersonally, too.

And then, as if all this wasn't bad enough, most of the veterans' organizations that were there to help the WWII vets adjust, to help them heal inside, to give them support ... deliberately turned their backs on the VN vet. We were just a bunch of "whiners", "losers", "dope-heads", "baby-killers", blah, blah, blah ad nauseum.

So, you have =terrible= memories and nightmares, can't sleep or adjust or relate to other people, and people are always looking at you like you're some kind of sick "monster". But far, far worse than all of that, you can now 'see' quite clearly where the government has been and is and continues to lie to the populace and manipulates them shamelessly ... and there is =NOTHING= you can do or say about it, because people flat =refuse= to listen to or believe you. In fact, the more you =prove= your point, the angrier they get, =at= =YOU=!!

Yeah, sure, the WWII vets were all "heroes" and more VN vets committed suicide than were killed in action. So explain to me why this is supposed to 'surprise' me..... (And don't even get me started on that rat-b@st@rd Bush...! Just. Don't.)

BTW, you all might find the book "On Killing" interesting and useful reading. It is used as a text at West Point, among other things.

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Originally posted by Carl Puppchen:

My dad also said that more Vietnam vets killed themselves after the war than died in the war. At least the WW2 vets came home as heroes.

I thought quite a bit before I started this reply, but decided the possible slur needed responding to, probably because I've had to deal with this very same "attitude" from my own father and most of the 'older adults' (the WWII generation) I know.

Yes, the WWII vets came home as "heroes". The entire country was behind them, supported them, etc, etc, and, quite frankly, because they "won". Also, they went out in groups and came back in groups. That may not sound like much, but it means quite a lot, believe me.

The fiasco in Viet Nam was a completely different situation. The country did not support the troops =or= why we were there. =To= =this= =day=, very few of the American populace know, or want to know, what that was all about. In the end, "we" "lost", something this (overly?) proud country has never had to deal with before. In the 'beginning', troops were sent over there in units, but quite soon people were being sent to units one or two at a time, like chunky bits being fed into a meat-grinder, and just as impersonally, too.

And then, as if all this wasn't bad enough, most of the veterans' organizations that were there to help the WWII vets adjust, to help them heal inside, to give them support ... deliberately turned their backs on the VN vet. We were just a bunch of "whiners", "losers", "dope-heads", "baby-killers", blah, blah, blah ad nauseum.

So, you have =terrible= memories and nightmares, can't sleep or adjust or relate to other people, and people are always looking at you like you're some kind of sick "monster". But far, far worse than all of that, you can now 'see' quite clearly where the government has been and is and continues to lie to the populace and manipulates them shamelessly ... and there is =NOTHING= you can do or say about it, because people flat =refuse= to listen to or believe you. In fact, the more you =prove= your point, the angrier they get, =at= =YOU=!!

Yeah, sure, the WWII vets were all "heroes" and more VN vets committed suicide than were killed in action. So explain to me why this is supposed to 'surprise' me..... (And don't even get me started on that rat-b@st@rd Bush...! Just. Don't.)

BTW, you all might find the book "On Killing" interesting and useful reading. It is used as a text at West Point, among other things.

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This has taken a while to read, but has been well worth it.

well, my family was all none combatants

Maternal Grandfather was reserved occupation - a fireman,

Maternal Grandmother was a nurse delaing with casualties from europe.

Paturnal Granfather was a mechanic in North africa and italy.

the real oddity in my family is my paturnal grandmother and my paturnal grandfathers brother, who were both members of the codebreaking operations at Station X and Y.

the odd thing is that neither knew of the others involvment until a few years ago, when the offical secrets act they had signed ran out. it was only at a family gathering, where a program about Bletchly Park (Station X) was on TV, and one of them mentioned it, off hand.

they had known each other for 40 years, and had no idea that they had been doing the same job during the war!

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This has taken a while to read, but has been well worth it.

well, my family was all none combatants

Maternal Grandfather was reserved occupation - a fireman,

Maternal Grandmother was a nurse delaing with casualties from europe.

Paturnal Granfather was a mechanic in North africa and italy.

the real oddity in my family is my paturnal grandmother and my paturnal grandfathers brother, who were both members of the codebreaking operations at Station X and Y.

the odd thing is that neither knew of the others involvment until a few years ago, when the offical secrets act they had signed ran out. it was only at a family gathering, where a program about Bletchly Park (Station X) was on TV, and one of them mentioned it, off hand.

they had known each other for 40 years, and had no idea that they had been doing the same job during the war!

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This has taken a while to read, but has been well worth it.

well, my family was all none combatants

Maternal Grandfather was reserved occupation - a fireman,

Maternal Grandmother was a nurse delaing with casualties from europe.

Paturnal Granfather was a mechanic in North africa and italy.

the real oddity in my family is my paturnal grandmother and my paturnal grandfathers brother, who were both members of the codebreaking operations at Station X and Y.

the odd thing is that neither knew of the others involvment until a few years ago, when the offical secrets act they had signed ran out. it was only at a family gathering, where a program about Bletchly Park (Station X) was on TV, and one of them mentioned it, off hand.

they had known each other for 40 years, and had no idea that they had been doing the same job during the war!

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My Father graduated highschool in the spring of 1943. He ate 3 pounds of bananas so that he would make the weight limit and joined the USAAF.

He was a gunner on a B-24 in the 15th Airforce stationed in Southern Italy. He flew all gunner positions but spent most of his time as a tail gunner. Nose gunner freaked him out because you could see the flak you were gonna fly through. In the winter of 43-44 he had a dream in which his dead grandmother came and told him he better not fly with the pilot that the crew had drawn for the next mission. He talked one other member of the crew into signing off as replacements, the remaining 6 enlisted crew didn't want to walk through the cold rain and mud to the operations tent to sign off. On the subsequent mission, the plane my father would have been in took a direct flak hit with a full bomb load, no one got out, he saw the whole thing. It hit him pretty hard, he was 18 and this was the crew he had trained with, they had flown the plane over from the states, they were close. After the death of his crew he flew what were known as 'grey ghost' missions; a single B-24 (painted grey) would fly in bad weather and drop propaganda leaflets or chaf. He flew a total of 54 combat missions.

He ended the war as a gunnery instructor at an airbase in Texas. He had actually volunteered for B-29 crew duty in the Pacific because his best friend from home had just enlisted and was bound for the Pacific as a B-29 Gunner.

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My Father graduated highschool in the spring of 1943. He ate 3 pounds of bananas so that he would make the weight limit and joined the USAAF.

He was a gunner on a B-24 in the 15th Airforce stationed in Southern Italy. He flew all gunner positions but spent most of his time as a tail gunner. Nose gunner freaked him out because you could see the flak you were gonna fly through. In the winter of 43-44 he had a dream in which his dead grandmother came and told him he better not fly with the pilot that the crew had drawn for the next mission. He talked one other member of the crew into signing off as replacements, the remaining 6 enlisted crew didn't want to walk through the cold rain and mud to the operations tent to sign off. On the subsequent mission, the plane my father would have been in took a direct flak hit with a full bomb load, no one got out, he saw the whole thing. It hit him pretty hard, he was 18 and this was the crew he had trained with, they had flown the plane over from the states, they were close. After the death of his crew he flew what were known as 'grey ghost' missions; a single B-24 (painted grey) would fly in bad weather and drop propaganda leaflets or chaf. He flew a total of 54 combat missions.

He ended the war as a gunnery instructor at an airbase in Texas. He had actually volunteered for B-29 crew duty in the Pacific because his best friend from home had just enlisted and was bound for the Pacific as a B-29 Gunner.

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My Father graduated highschool in the spring of 1943. He ate 3 pounds of bananas so that he would make the weight limit and joined the USAAF.

He was a gunner on a B-24 in the 15th Airforce stationed in Southern Italy. He flew all gunner positions but spent most of his time as a tail gunner. Nose gunner freaked him out because you could see the flak you were gonna fly through. In the winter of 43-44 he had a dream in which his dead grandmother came and told him he better not fly with the pilot that the crew had drawn for the next mission. He talked one other member of the crew into signing off as replacements, the remaining 6 enlisted crew didn't want to walk through the cold rain and mud to the operations tent to sign off. On the subsequent mission, the plane my father would have been in took a direct flak hit with a full bomb load, no one got out, he saw the whole thing. It hit him pretty hard, he was 18 and this was the crew he had trained with, they had flown the plane over from the states, they were close. After the death of his crew he flew what were known as 'grey ghost' missions; a single B-24 (painted grey) would fly in bad weather and drop propaganda leaflets or chaf. He flew a total of 54 combat missions.

He ended the war as a gunnery instructor at an airbase in Texas. He had actually volunteered for B-29 crew duty in the Pacific because his best friend from home had just enlisted and was bound for the Pacific as a B-29 Gunner.

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My maternal Grandfather worked on the railways, so was in the Home Guard (Captain in the Swindon Btn). He served in the Navy for the last 6 months of WW1 (paddle minesweepers in the Bristol Channel). My paternal side of the family were mostly merchant seamen. One great uncle was torpedoed several times (I will have to get my Dad to remind me, but 3 times springs to mind). My Dad's father was a harbour pilot at Bombay, and died 1942. My grandmother, father and uncle then came back to UK, and the leg from Cape Town to UK was in convoy with HMS Warspite. He remembers Warspite doing practice shoots with main armament! (He was 11 or so at the time, and just missed Korea)

My great uncle (actually hubby of a great aunt) was in the TA, and was in an AT unit in the div that reinforced Singapore in early 1942 (18th?). Their ATG were all lost when the ship they were in was sunk, and so he spent a few days as infantry, before the surrender, and then he spent 3+ years on the Burma railway etc. He never recovered and died in the 70's

Because of age, my close family managed to miss the worst effects of both wars, but my Dad was in the army, and recalls (early in his career - probably the 50's) finding a 25pdr that had gun records listing a most humongous rate of fire for the days corresponding to Alamein - fired close to a thousand rounds in something like a month IIRC. Probably wasn't the same barrel by the time he saw it! ;)

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My maternal Grandfather worked on the railways, so was in the Home Guard (Captain in the Swindon Btn). He served in the Navy for the last 6 months of WW1 (paddle minesweepers in the Bristol Channel). My paternal side of the family were mostly merchant seamen. One great uncle was torpedoed several times (I will have to get my Dad to remind me, but 3 times springs to mind). My Dad's father was a harbour pilot at Bombay, and died 1942. My grandmother, father and uncle then came back to UK, and the leg from Cape Town to UK was in convoy with HMS Warspite. He remembers Warspite doing practice shoots with main armament! (He was 11 or so at the time, and just missed Korea)

My great uncle (actually hubby of a great aunt) was in the TA, and was in an AT unit in the div that reinforced Singapore in early 1942 (18th?). Their ATG were all lost when the ship they were in was sunk, and so he spent a few days as infantry, before the surrender, and then he spent 3+ years on the Burma railway etc. He never recovered and died in the 70's

Because of age, my close family managed to miss the worst effects of both wars, but my Dad was in the army, and recalls (early in his career - probably the 50's) finding a 25pdr that had gun records listing a most humongous rate of fire for the days corresponding to Alamein - fired close to a thousand rounds in something like a month IIRC. Probably wasn't the same barrel by the time he saw it! ;)

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My maternal Grandfather worked on the railways, so was in the Home Guard (Captain in the Swindon Btn). He served in the Navy for the last 6 months of WW1 (paddle minesweepers in the Bristol Channel). My paternal side of the family were mostly merchant seamen. One great uncle was torpedoed several times (I will have to get my Dad to remind me, but 3 times springs to mind). My Dad's father was a harbour pilot at Bombay, and died 1942. My grandmother, father and uncle then came back to UK, and the leg from Cape Town to UK was in convoy with HMS Warspite. He remembers Warspite doing practice shoots with main armament! (He was 11 or so at the time, and just missed Korea)

My great uncle (actually hubby of a great aunt) was in the TA, and was in an AT unit in the div that reinforced Singapore in early 1942 (18th?). Their ATG were all lost when the ship they were in was sunk, and so he spent a few days as infantry, before the surrender, and then he spent 3+ years on the Burma railway etc. He never recovered and died in the 70's

Because of age, my close family managed to miss the worst effects of both wars, but my Dad was in the army, and recalls (early in his career - probably the 50's) finding a 25pdr that had gun records listing a most humongous rate of fire for the days corresponding to Alamein - fired close to a thousand rounds in something like a month IIRC. Probably wasn't the same barrel by the time he saw it! ;)

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One grandfather made halftracks and tanks in Cleveland, Ohio.

One great uncle was an enlisted man on Patton's staff. My second great-uncle was in New Guinea. The third one was a Sherman tank commander in the Marshal islands. (He had four shot out from beneath him.)

My father-in-law was a navigator on a B-17 near the end of the war. He missed the worst part of the war due to pneumonia.

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One grandfather made halftracks and tanks in Cleveland, Ohio.

One great uncle was an enlisted man on Patton's staff. My second great-uncle was in New Guinea. The third one was a Sherman tank commander in the Marshal islands. (He had four shot out from beneath him.)

My father-in-law was a navigator on a B-17 near the end of the war. He missed the worst part of the war due to pneumonia.

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One grandfather made halftracks and tanks in Cleveland, Ohio.

One great uncle was an enlisted man on Patton's staff. My second great-uncle was in New Guinea. The third one was a Sherman tank commander in the Marshal islands. (He had four shot out from beneath him.)

My father-in-law was a navigator on a B-17 near the end of the war. He missed the worst part of the war due to pneumonia.

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My father was drafted in '43 right out of aircraft mech. school was suposed to work on

planes. The Col. at basic training threw the

paper work away. He got posted to the 8th AF

was a mess Sgt..The only mess related story was telling the officers they could "take you want

but eat all you take" he would not let them throw any food away.

When the Bulge started he was sent to one

of Pattons Div. trained inthe use of the Bazooka,

and taught how to attack Tigers with it. They were to attack the tracks first and then worry about the turent. He came back from the bulge with frostbite on all ten toes, he did not lose any toes.

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My father was drafted in '43 right out of aircraft mech. school was suposed to work on

planes. The Col. at basic training threw the

paper work away. He got posted to the 8th AF

was a mess Sgt..The only mess related story was telling the officers they could "take you want

but eat all you take" he would not let them throw any food away.

When the Bulge started he was sent to one

of Pattons Div. trained inthe use of the Bazooka,

and taught how to attack Tigers with it. They were to attack the tracks first and then worry about the turent. He came back from the bulge with frostbite on all ten toes, he did not lose any toes.

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My father was drafted in '43 right out of aircraft mech. school was suposed to work on

planes. The Col. at basic training threw the

paper work away. He got posted to the 8th AF

was a mess Sgt..The only mess related story was telling the officers they could "take you want

but eat all you take" he would not let them throw any food away.

When the Bulge started he was sent to one

of Pattons Div. trained inthe use of the Bazooka,

and taught how to attack Tigers with it. They were to attack the tracks first and then worry about the turent. He came back from the bulge with frostbite on all ten toes, he did not lose any toes.

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My Father was in Co B,8th Armored Inf. Battalion,20th Arm. Div.and although he would talk rarely of the war to me,(he will be 81 yrs. old on Jan 14th) lately he has given me all sorts of war related articles and items that he had.I do know that they liberated Dachau concentration camp and that he was in Hitler's eagles nest at one time.He gave me a German dagger that he thought to be SS that he picked up in France somewhere(he had the full uniform that was left behind by retreating soldiers but left it in France) but I've found out that it is a Luftwaffe dress dagger and I've displayed it at our history center from time to time but I don't know the whole story behind it.The one ironic thing was that my father got a phone call back a few years ago by a man named Charles Schultz,(Charlie Brown creator,they called him Sparky during the war)and he told my father that he was in France recently and was filming some kind of documentary about his war years and came upon my fathers name scratched into an archway at an entrance to some estate that they holed up in at one time and he tracked my father down and called him to let him know it was still there.He sent pictures of the place with him standing, pointing to my dad's name, and also invited my mother and him to California to visit his studio and such,we were shocked to say the least!My dad told me he remembered Sparky drawing all the time but really didn't realize that that was the same Charlie Schultz he knew back in the war,it's a great story but I won't drag this on.My dad's brothers served as well,one in Artillary somewhere and the other in the infantry, and he was wounded in Germany and I got to see his Purple Heart and news article about it once when my Grandparents where still alive(my Grandmother had it).I was going through my fathers articles awhile back and found that had the Pacific war dragged on, Operation "Downfall" was planned and the 20th Armored would've taken part in Operation "Coronet", which was the invasion near Tokyo and the most heavily defended area and expected losses/wounded of American lives in the invasion to be in excess of 250,000 just in the first phase alone.I'm thankful the war ended when it, did since myself and probably others on this forum wouldn't be here right now.My father told me he believed he would've been killed had the war gone on.Today my one uncle is 83 yrs. old,my other uncle is 80 yrs. old and my father soon to be 81,and all in very good health and mind.I hold the utmost respect for what these "kids" went through and I truly believe what Tom Brokaw said when he called them the "greatest" generation.I owe them and I'll never forget as will my children never forget.

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My Father was in Co B,8th Armored Inf. Battalion,20th Arm. Div.and although he would talk rarely of the war to me,(he will be 81 yrs. old on Jan 14th) lately he has given me all sorts of war related articles and items that he had.I do know that they liberated Dachau concentration camp and that he was in Hitler's eagles nest at one time.He gave me a German dagger that he thought to be SS that he picked up in France somewhere(he had the full uniform that was left behind by retreating soldiers but left it in France) but I've found out that it is a Luftwaffe dress dagger and I've displayed it at our history center from time to time but I don't know the whole story behind it.The one ironic thing was that my father got a phone call back a few years ago by a man named Charles Schultz,(Charlie Brown creator,they called him Sparky during the war)and he told my father that he was in France recently and was filming some kind of documentary about his war years and came upon my fathers name scratched into an archway at an entrance to some estate that they holed up in at one time and he tracked my father down and called him to let him know it was still there.He sent pictures of the place with him standing, pointing to my dad's name, and also invited my mother and him to California to visit his studio and such,we were shocked to say the least!My dad told me he remembered Sparky drawing all the time but really didn't realize that that was the same Charlie Schultz he knew back in the war,it's a great story but I won't drag this on.My dad's brothers served as well,one in Artillary somewhere and the other in the infantry, and he was wounded in Germany and I got to see his Purple Heart and news article about it once when my Grandparents where still alive(my Grandmother had it).I was going through my fathers articles awhile back and found that had the Pacific war dragged on, Operation "Downfall" was planned and the 20th Armored would've taken part in Operation "Coronet", which was the invasion near Tokyo and the most heavily defended area and expected losses/wounded of American lives in the invasion to be in excess of 250,000 just in the first phase alone.I'm thankful the war ended when it, did since myself and probably others on this forum wouldn't be here right now.My father told me he believed he would've been killed had the war gone on.Today my one uncle is 83 yrs. old,my other uncle is 80 yrs. old and my father soon to be 81,and all in very good health and mind.I hold the utmost respect for what these "kids" went through and I truly believe what Tom Brokaw said when he called them the "greatest" generation.I owe them and I'll never forget as will my children never forget.

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