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advancing with zooks


jwatts
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I, like any find the infantry antitank weapons like 'zooks, PIATs, and 'schrecks pretty useful in some situations, such as close in defense when all the ATGs are down, or ambush situations. In these applications they work well, as long as they are used properly, and I think I have a pretty good handle on it. What I am having problems with, however, is using them on the advance. Sometimes, when I am using an infantry-heavy force, and there's a good chance of enemy armor being encountered, I feel that they are vital, but I don't quite know how to advance with them. Should I keep them with their platoons, maybe a little behind to avoid them getting killed too quick? Or should I keep them bunched with another commander in a sort of antitank platoon, then move them forward when I need them? That's what I usually do, but often my forward platoons take significant casualties before I can engage the armor.

On a side note, I am playing a scenario right now, with two US infantry battalions (mid42, North Africa), with a lot of integral bazookas. I have a pretty decent number of Shermans, and have been told the enemy Fallschirmjaeger have little AT defense, and certainly no armor of their own. My tanks can handle the initial approach, but the flags are on a rough-covered escarpment, prohibiting the use of armor on the final assualt. Should I pretty much ignore my zooks, keeping them far, far away, or should I advance them with the infantry and use them to reduce hardpoints like bunkers? I REALLY hope JasonC notices this, his knowledge is encyclopedic to say the least!

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I, like any find the infantry antitank weapons like 'zooks, PIATs, and 'schrecks pretty useful in some situations, such as close in defense when all the ATGs are down, or ambush situations. In these applications they work well, as long as they are used properly, and I think I have a pretty good handle on it. What I am having problems with, however, is using them on the advance. Sometimes, when I am using an infantry-heavy force, and there's a good chance of enemy armor being encountered, I feel that they are vital, but I don't quite know how to advance with them. Should I keep them with their platoons, maybe a little behind to avoid them getting killed too quick? Or should I keep them bunched with another commander in a sort of antitank platoon, then move them forward when I need them? That's what I usually do, but often my forward platoons take significant casualties before I can engage the armor.

On a side note, I am playing a scenario right now, with two US infantry battalions (mid42, North Africa), with a lot of integral bazookas. I have a pretty decent number of Shermans, and have been told the enemy Fallschirmjaeger have little AT defense, and certainly no armor of their own. My tanks can handle the initial approach, but the flags are on a rough-covered escarpment, prohibiting the use of armor on the final assualt. Should I pretty much ignore my zooks, keeping them far, far away, or should I advance them with the infantry and use them to reduce hardpoints like bunkers? I REALLY hope JasonC notices this, his knowledge is encyclopedic to say the least!

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It's tricky to balance, but I've found that if they're very far back, they're not on-hand when you do encounter armor. Of course you don't want them in the very front line, but bringing them up from a trailing stance may take too long, or circumstances may make it impossible. In general, I keep them trailing a bit behind the platoon HQ, and that often ends up being one "cover tile" behind the HQ, but that varies of course. Then you have to hope it's "not too close" to get shot for no reason, but not too far to react when you encounter armor. Sorry to be so vague, but it sounds like you've got the right idea anyway.

[ November 14, 2007, 06:50 AM: Message edited by: Parker ]

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It's tricky to balance, but I've found that if they're very far back, they're not on-hand when you do encounter armor. Of course you don't want them in the very front line, but bringing them up from a trailing stance may take too long, or circumstances may make it impossible. In general, I keep them trailing a bit behind the platoon HQ, and that often ends up being one "cover tile" behind the HQ, but that varies of course. Then you have to hope it's "not too close" to get shot for no reason, but not too far to react when you encounter armor. Sorry to be so vague, but it sounds like you've got the right idea anyway.

[ November 14, 2007, 06:50 AM: Message edited by: Parker ]

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Originally posted by jwatts:

On a side note, I am playing a scenario right now, with two US infantry battalions (mid42, North Africa), with a lot of integral bazookas. I have a pretty decent number of Shermans, and have been told the enemy Fallschirmjaeger have little AT defense, and certainly no armor of their own. My tanks can handle the initial approach, but the flags are on a rough-covered escarpment, prohibiting the use of armor on the final assualt.

Hmmm...that scenario sounds familiar... ;)
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Originally posted by jwatts:

On a side note, I am playing a scenario right now, with two US infantry battalions (mid42, North Africa), with a lot of integral bazookas. I have a pretty decent number of Shermans, and have been told the enemy Fallschirmjaeger have little AT defense, and certainly no armor of their own. My tanks can handle the initial approach, but the flags are on a rough-covered escarpment, prohibiting the use of armor on the final assualt.

Hmmm...that scenario sounds familiar... ;)
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Yeah? It's called "All is Fair...". Seems pretty fun, but two battalions plus is quite a lot of troops for me, I've never really been too successfull with a force that large. Since my first post I have made initial contact, and am trying to supress his ATGs, but am still quite a few turns from a good fight. After my recon, I'm pretty sure there is NO WAY for the 'zooks to get in this one, at least not for a while, since those damned Fallshcirmjaeger have waaaaaaaay too many MG42s. For some reason my 'zooks don't like MG42s too much, no clue why though.

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Yeah? It's called "All is Fair...". Seems pretty fun, but two battalions plus is quite a lot of troops for me, I've never really been too successfull with a force that large. Since my first post I have made initial contact, and am trying to supress his ATGs, but am still quite a few turns from a good fight. After my recon, I'm pretty sure there is NO WAY for the 'zooks to get in this one, at least not for a while, since those damned Fallshcirmjaeger have waaaaaaaay too many MG42s. For some reason my 'zooks don't like MG42s too much, no clue why though.

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Originally posted by jwatts:

...and have been told the enemy Fallschirmjaeger have little AT defense, and certainly no armor of their own."

Ha! That's a good one. Whenever the briefing tells you that it's a good one. You know it's a well crafted briefing when it has a nice dose of that eternal oxymoron "military intelligence." smile.gif
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Originally posted by jwatts:

...and have been told the enemy Fallschirmjaeger have little AT defense, and certainly no armor of their own."

Ha! That's a good one. Whenever the briefing tells you that it's a good one. You know it's a well crafted briefing when it has a nice dose of that eternal oxymoron "military intelligence." smile.gif
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Oh certainly. Then again, the scenario is historical, and the terrain REALLY isn't well suited for armor, especially for the defender. They are entrenched on a high, rough-covered escarpment. If they do, it should be pretty easy to deal with, and i've got plenty of overwatch.

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Oh certainly. Then again, the scenario is historical, and the terrain REALLY isn't well suited for armor, especially for the defender. They are entrenched on a high, rough-covered escarpment. If they do, it should be pretty easy to deal with, and i've got plenty of overwatch.

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Yes, typically that's what I do, or rather attempt to do. Sometimes it's just frustrating when there a)is no enemy armor and they get killed or B) they are trying to follow their platoon and get routed/killed because they're so damned slow! Of course I also realize that these are real world problems, and the real world isn't perfect. I'm 21 and hear that ad naseum as is, so I certainly don't need it from you old coots!

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Yes, typically that's what I do, or rather attempt to do. Sometimes it's just frustrating when there a)is no enemy armor and they get killed or B) they are trying to follow their platoon and get routed/killed because they're so damned slow! Of course I also realize that these are real world problems, and the real world isn't perfect. I'm 21 and hear that ad naseum as is, so I certainly don't need it from you old coots!

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I'm calling anyone over 30 an old coot, and rightfully so! Whippersnapper is a good word, definitely got the mood right. I think it's a kind of cookie, or should be. Ya'al just wait until I can get my internet computer to be my CM computer, then I'll be totally letting everyone ride roughshod over me! That'll teach ya!

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I'm calling anyone over 30 an old coot, and rightfully so! Whippersnapper is a good word, definitely got the mood right. I think it's a kind of cookie, or should be. Ya'al just wait until I can get my internet computer to be my CM computer, then I'll be totally letting everyone ride roughshod over me! That'll teach ya!

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I also often have similar issues as the initial post. There is also the issue of whether, if it highly unlikely I will need the zooks/piats (or so many of them), to hide them somewhere, so they don't actually get shot up and count against me in victory points.

That is truely "gamey". But the other reason I might do that is to reduce the number of units I have to move each turn. (I like infantry-heavy battles--but sometimes the mass of things to move can be a drag)

Sometimes it depends on my mood: whether I want to be "historical", or am just trying to enjoy a fun game.

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