On map mortars with observer, etc.

[el T]

Does anyone know if it is possible to use on-map mortars with an observer? How can i place my mortars in a protective position, where they do not have LOS to the target, and still use their fires?

Also, is it possible to pre-plan targets in the offense/defense and assign priority targets? Can i plan or in any other way utilize targets other than point targets (linear, FPF's ...)?

Finally, does this game model precision registration or something similar?

thanks,

el T

[JasonC]

One of the oldest frequently asked questions.

Mortars can fire indirect with a spotting HQ. The spotter is the HQ unit with a red command line to the mortar - it must be in command. The HQ must have LOS to the target and not be hiding or panicked (panic turns command lines black, so that is redundant). Then select the mortar, and target the desired enemy or location. The target line will "stick" and should read "area fire".

The mortar will then fire on that physical location at its max rate of fire, until the order is cancelled. They will not adjust the aim point as a target moves, as they are firing at the location not the unit.

Mortar carrier vehicles get command lines to HQs, which are used only for this purpose. So you can spot for e.g. an 81mm SPW.

Non-mortar on map weapons (howitzers etc) cannot use indirect fire. They can of course area fire at any location they can see, and do not need a spotted enemy for that. But they do need LOS.

As for registrations for artillery, the game has a fortification type called "TRP" which stands for "target reference point". They typically cost 10 points and are available to defenders in QBs. In scenarios, either side may be given any number of them. These are placed anywhere on the map - they look like red bullseye in a crosshair.

Artillery FOs that target a location within 10m of a TRP, get various bonuses. The largest is a dramatic reduction in the delay before fire is delivered, typically to under one minute. The barrage will also always be accurate. And no LOS is necessary from the FO to the TRP.

On map mortars *that have not moved all game* may also fire at a TRP, without LOS or an HQ spotter. Same rule about 10m from the TRP marker.

Artillery FOs can choose 2 types of "sheaf" for their fire missions - standard, and "target wide". Standard represents a converged sheaf with all guns aimed at the same physical location. It gives a pattern that is long in the axis of fire - typically east-west - and quite narrow.

This is the dispersion pattern of the guns themselves, a kind of maximum tightness achievable. For typical types, most of the shells will land within 40m left or right and 100m long or short of the aim point. Half or more will land within 20m left or right and 60m long or short. The orientation cannot be changed.

Target wide gives a much wider and a more circular pattern. There is still elongation in the axis of fire. Up to 2/3rds of the rounds will still land in a pattern about as tight as previously described above. The remaining third or so will land up to 100m farther away.

2-3 target wide orders on aim points about 100m apart from side to side, will give a reasonable accurate depiction of a battalion scale fire mission. Almost everything else is much tighter than the patterns actually used, historically. Few players have the ammo for this, or want to spread it around over so wide an area even if they do. But it is possible and realistic.

Rocket FOs are an exception to all of the above. Rockets are wildly inaccurate, wide area weapons. Their normal pattern is about 400 meters wide, by about 200-250 meters long or short. Fire them at a whole enemy side of the map, in other words. There is still some definite tendency of the rockets to land near the aim point, with "near" now meaning within about 100m. The circle about 100m around the aim point of a large rocket fire mission will be well plastered. The rest of the huge pattern will get spotty coverage here or there.

FOs can be used in 2 distinct ways, independent of the choice of "sheaf" and the presence of TRPs: normal and "map" fire.

Normal fire missions are called during the game on a visible target or a TRP. They have delays from more than 5 minutes for large types to under 1 minute for TRP shots. The mission once started lasts until shut off by a change in aim point or by canceling the fire order. Rocket FOs often are single salvos (some types 2-3), most "tube" types have ammo for 3-4 minutes.

The aim point can be changed for a delay, typically 1-2 minutes added to the existing time. That can be used to "walk" a barrage. When you drag the target line around, it will be green if you are within adjust range of the previous aim point. 100m shifts cause minimal delay. Long shifts restart the clock as though a whole new fire mission is being called, and show a blue targeting line.

Normal or "reactive" fire is sensitive to LOS (lose it even briefly and the barrage will come down off target by up to 400m), and to the state of the FO (he can't pin or panic during the countdown). While you can call it out of LOS, it will miss by a long way and it should not be tried. TRPs are of course an exception.

Map fire, on the other hand presents a "fire plan" at higher HQ. It is planned once on the first turn of the game and cannot be changed thereafter. It is always accurate. It is always fired as a full module, with no change in aim point. It does not matter what happens to the FO - he can even exit and the shells will still land. Map fire must be ordered on turn 1. If no change is then made, it lands immediately as a "prep fire" bombardment. You can instead delay the mission by pressing Q, one minute of delay for each press. So you can call the fire anywhere and for any time. You just have to know exactly where and when, on turn 1.

A typical use of map fire is to buy 1-3 large caliber FOs with low unit quality (to make them cheap) and time their impact for when you expect contact, or just before it. Or to clear particular objectives you hope to reach. Since the plan cannot be changed, you have to conform your movements to the barrage instead of the other way around. It would be normal to also keep a "reactive" module, typically smaller caliber, to handle threats as they arise, etc.

Note that map fire is not allowed in meeting engagements. The sides are presumed not to know enough yet for higher staffs to have planned them already.

There is a fair amount of variety and a lot to learn how to do right, to get the most from CM artillery. There isn't a wide variety of allowed sheafs and such. You have to make up for it by using other features - e.g. aim here, fire for 1 1/2 minutes, shift the aim point 100m and fire the next minute, etc.

One other thing about TRPs - they also act as "boresights" for any on map gun with LOS to the location. Fire at a target close to a TRP gets much higher first round accuracy. This is used e.g. for ATG ambushes and the like. All TRPs work for all purposes, you don't have to designate which way they are being used or for which gun or FO.

I hope this helps.

[ParaBellum]

HQs can act as spotters for mortars, as long as the mortars are in command range of the HQ and the HQ has LOS to the target area. Any HQ will do.

You can use pre-planned arty missions by targetting areas during the 1st minute of a battle. You can use the pause command to delay this preplanned barrage. Once set, you cannot change a preplanned barrage later in the game.

You can place target reference points (if available in the scenario or bought in a QB) which act as pre-registered target points. Offboard artillery aimed at those TRPs gets a (much) reduced delay, onboard heavy weapons get a to hit bonus.

EDIT: Jason was, as usual, quicker AND more elaborate.

[el T]

That should give me enough information to experiment with the various options in CM.

Thanks a lot for the info!

el T

[David I]

el T,

I played this game for a year before I figured that one out. Found out how it works on this forum. JasonC knows what he is talking about.

DavidI

[MeatEtr]

Just a reminder too, use the search function of the forum. There's been alot of discussions in the past about practically everything from the CM world.

[el T]

I tried those TRP's out as well as the observer with the on-map mortars, and the "pre-planned" targets on turn one. It's a little rough, but i guess it will do for the game.

One wish i have is more options as far as the size and shape of the targets. The "Target Wide" option is a little simplistic to what i would like to see. It would be nice if you could specify the length/width/attitude of a target and different sheafs. Also, a TOT option would be appreciated. If you could mass two or more batteries/platoons/sections of the same caliber onto one target (basically simulating battalion or even regimental fires - not thinking about realism here, as far as how much fire support you get with respect to the size of your maneuver forces) and possibly combine that with TOT, it would be very interesting.

I realize it's a game and that if you put too much into the product it would turn into too much to deal with, so just ignore me if you want to.

One more thing that came to mind. It would be very useful to specify the number of rounds per call for fire. Btry X or if massing fire, Bn/reg X. Without this kind of control a lot of rounds are wasted when you use artillery in CMAK.

el T

ps. I did search the forum before asking my original quetion. I just didn't find much of value. Thanks again for replying with excellent info.

[ June 10, 2006, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: el T ]

[dieseltaylor]

I think reading through these would have answered your first question several times and MORE importantly given you answers to questions yet to occur to you : ) But then I always believe archives are good things and the PDF rule book as hidden on the CD is pretty useful - not that I have read it yet though ......

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[Centurian52]

This has all been very helpful. I am just getting into the 1st generation Combat Mission games (they are the only ones with any early-war content) and figuring out how arty works in this engine has been one of the learning hurdles.