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A little disappointed with CMAK


TeAcH
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Well I've paid for all three. And to be perfectly honest if BFC decide to ease their cash flow before the launch of CM 'X' by taking CMBB back to Normandy and the West Front then I'll be very happy to pony up for that too. Go on fellahs you owe it to yourself - those green fees can eat into your petty cash after a while!

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Originally posted by Determinant:

Well I've paid for all three. And to be perfectly honest if BFC decide to ease their cash flow before the launch of CM 'X' by taking CMBB back to Normandy and the West Front then I'll be very happy to pony up for that too. Go on fellahs you owe it to yourself - those green fees can eat into your petty cash after a while!

Say, a 20 dollar "expansion pack" - a sort of mega-patch - with France/Low Countries/Germany as an additional theatre, and the "missing" units (Cromwell, KT, etc.)?

I'd say look for it in about a year's time...

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Originally posted by Seanachai:

Frankly, I've never understood this complaint about the 'graphics'. To each their own, I guess, but I have absolutely no problem with the quality of the graphics in the CM series, and I don't even bother with all the excellent Mods out there!

You know, Seanachai, I'm comfortable with that.

Normally I would denounce anything our gnomish friend had to say about anything, but here he has hit it dead on.

I can't say I understand the camp that wants "better" graphics, but I know I won't be intentionally downsampling them if/when they appear either. So I will sit in my camp holding up my sign for "better gameplay mechanics and more historical realism (where appropriate)", and they will sit in their camp holding up their signs for "dynamic lighting and photo-realistic whatchamahoozits".

In the process, I know that the BFC guys will survey both camps and do what they can to please both. After all, one does not have to exclude the other, up to a point.

-dale

[ November 24, 2003, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: dalem ]

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"I'm not impressed either."

Geepers, you expected a CM game to not look like a CM game or play like a CM game perhaps? If you were expecting a 3-D true-scale historically accurate battlefield recreation then CMAK rocks. If you were expecting a 'commercial' computer game that Hollywood could make a bad action movie from (remember Bob Hoskins in the 'Super Mario Bros' movie?) then CMAK will probably be a disappointment.

And don't forget, BFC's only 1 for 2 in knock-out demos. Don't judge the full game on a couple scenarios. Think of all the people who played the CMBB demo and never got to play with the Sturmtiger as a result!

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The graphics may not be up with some of the newest games, but at least since it is essentially an expansion pack we will know it will work with no major bugs.

Even with postage from the US it will cost less than the games I may buy for the kids this Xmas.

I think these titles are great. What people think are bugs here are very minor tweaks. If people want to see bugs try playing some of the children’s titles costing a lot more where whole sections of the game do not work at all.

I will look forward to seeing my copy, although I may still play CMBO more!!

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Originally posted by dalem:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MikeyD:

And don't forget, BFC's only 1 for 2 in knock-out demos.

I'd say 2 for 3. The CM:BO Beta Demo was bootylicious. Only the BB demo swung and missed so far in my opinion.

</font>

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Originally posted by KwazyDog:

What our main goal was, was to give people back the 'western theatre' whilst using an engine that is *significantly* upgraded last time they saw allied troops. Although we could have skipped this and moved solely onto the rewrite straight after CMBB we felt that people would rather this than having to wait another year or two from now for us to finish up the new engine, as the truth of the matter is people love using allied troops and now you guys have the tools to create a huge range of WW2 battles!

This is one Battlefront customer who appreciates the effort and thought process behind CMAK. For me, CMBB was soo much better than CMBO that I left the original game behind. With the introduction of CMAK, the game engine accuracy will be on par with CMBB and many of the West Front battles can be re-created. North Africa and Italy to me are the cherry on top of the game engine that now brings the possibilities of a more realistic West Front.
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Originally posted by dalem:

I can't say I understand the camp that wants "better" graphics, but I know I won't be intentionally downsampling them if/when they appear either. So I will sit in my camp holding up my sign for "better gameplay mechanics and more historical realism (where appropriate)", and they will sit in their camp holding up their signs for "dynamic lighting and photo-realistic whatchamahoozits".

By and large, Dale, we'd be sitting in the same camp. However, I think that dynamic lighting would actually be a realism boost too, rather than just a eye-candy thing. Especially in night scenarios. Unless I have a very different idea of what D-L is and will do.

Regards

JonS

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I was hoping they could get the Tac AI to recognize dead ground for taking cover from enemy fire. I still find it frustrating to see my troops crawling forward to some distant patch of cover when all they had to do was sneak back a few yards and drop down out of sight.

...And what's with the AI ability to spot an FO I've taken so much trouble to sneak forward so he could just peek over the top? Don't these FOs ever use camouflage or scissors 'scopes?

End of rant,

Ken

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TeAch, I'm with ya I'm afraid. There's just not enough new and different here to really grab my interest, so count me not only among the ranks of the unemployed, but also among those who'll be waiting for 2.0.

As for the Gnomish one (damn your artillery usage boy!):

The things they want are cool and impressive. But they are not what CM is about. There are games out there for that. Attempting to make CM into both a floor wax and a dessert topping will not improve it, it will simply break it, and end up satisfying no one.
I'm seeing a distinct similarity between your argument and my own against my dear ol' dad who frequently assures me that 'art' cannot be made from a mere digital camera.

CM is a concept and an idea, and it provides many things. I cannot see, however, that the addition of more realistic graphics will do anything to dilute any of them. In fact, I cannot see that the addition of said improvements will do anything but improve them. If the core elements of CM which we all love so much are given a shiny new set of clothes, how can the result be anything but improvement? Your arguments presuppose that greater graphic quality will necessarily signify a decrease in gameplay, and I believe this fallacy represents Ludditism at worst, and poo-poo schnozzing the boys from ME at best.

Open your eyes and arms (and maybe your PC case for a new video card), and realize that immersion in this type of game is no bad thing.

ianc

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Originally posted by ianc:

CM is a concept and an idea, and it provides many things. I cannot see, however, that the addition of more realistic graphics will do anything to dilute any of them.

Then I will try to explain it to you yet again. BFC has one (1), count 'em, programmers. As brilliant as Charles may be, there are only the same number of hours in his days as for mortals like yourself. He has to budget his time. Everything that goes into the game has to come out of that budget. If he spends a lot of time working on graphic issues to make them work, that's time he doesn't have to devote to gameplay related issues to make them work, and chasing down those bugs can be time consuming.

Now that is not to say that graphics should be ignored or neglected. Everybody that I know of wants CM to be a good looking game too, and as some in this thread have pointed out, some graphics issues have a direct impact on gameplay issues as well. But beyond that point, BFC has to ask itself how important is it? What else are we willing to give up to get it? My impression is that most companies BFC has been unfavorably compared to don't even realize what they are giving up and don't care. Well, that's their bag. But CM, and the considerable and enthusiastic audience that appreciates it, have a different bag. And until BFC announces otherwise, that pretty much is that.

Michael

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Originally posted by ianc:

TeAch, I'm with ya I'm afraid. There's just not enough new and different here to really grab my interest, so count me not only among the ranks of the unemployed, but also among those who'll be waiting for 2.0.

As for the Gnomish one (damn your artillery usage boy!):

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The things they want are cool and impressive. But they are not what CM is about. There are games out there for that. Attempting to make CM into both a floor wax and a dessert topping will not improve it, it will simply break it, and end up satisfying no one.

I'm seeing a distinct similarity between your argument and my own against my dear ol' dad who frequently assures me that 'art' cannot be made from a mere digital camera.

CM is a concept and an idea, and it provides many things. I cannot see, however, that the addition of more realistic graphics will do anything to dilute any of them. In fact, I cannot see that the addition of said improvements will do anything but improve them. If the core elements of CM which we all love so much are given a shiny new set of clothes, how can the result be anything but improvement? Your arguments presuppose that greater graphic quality will necessarily signify a decrease in gameplay, and I believe this fallacy represents Ludditism at worst, and poo-poo schnozzing the boys from ME at best.

Open your eyes and arms (and maybe your PC case for a new video card), and realize that immersion in this type of game is no bad thing.

ianc </font>

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Disappointed, you're right I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed that I'll be getting this game for Christmas as opposed for my birthday back in September. What took you so long. You wanted to make it right. A fine job you did too! smile.gif ! smile.gif !

I've already played both scenarios 6 times each. I'm dissapointed that they don't release another demo scenario before the full version ships. 05 DEC 2003 is a long way away. :(

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Originally posted by Seanachai:

But, Ianc, don't let my opinions distract you from the fact that I beat you like a gong, and Julie Andrews sends her love, kiss-kiss, and says she's never seen a funnier moment than when the 120 mm mortars dropped on your route to my lines and knocked out all your sodding open-topped tank destroyers, you big big loser.

Pearls among swine, m'lud Seanachai, pearls among swine. Harken thee Hence to the Muthah Beautiful. To Arms! To Arms!

Steve

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I've never played CMBO,I've had a crack at the CMBB demo and,while enjoying it,didn't purchase it as EastFront isn't my thing.I will be buying CMAK however as I'm really interested in the history of 2NZ Div. and this game has the entire Theatre where they fought.

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Okay. Seanachai, your argument is sound but your logic is flawed. Besides, it looks like you just enjoy watching yourself type WAY too much. I mean, do you really talk like that to people outside of a forum? That was a cheap shot I know and I expect some retaliation but I wrote it because your replies Seanachai are so condesending and fruity they are just plain annoying to read...even if you have a good point to make here and there.

Listen: I don't need nice new super-graphics to enjoy a game although I think they can add (not subtract) to immersion and the fun factor. Like I said, I bought CMBO and CMBB as soon as they were released and I love those games...graphics and all.

I have been around this forum as a faithful CM'er for a long time. I even devoted a great deal of time making that CMBO BER software program to randomize the end of a game. I know what makes a good game and what makes a great game. I dont need lecturing and babbling to about what I like and don't. I have two BTS gamers on my shelf that show I have taste (and that BTS is great).

My point was that graphics are not a bad thing. Agreed? With MODS and such, I can get nearly the same amount of awesome enjoyment from CMBO and CMBB that I think I would get from CMAK. That's all. I don't mean any disrespect. I am a devoted fan of BTS and like most of you, I have sold copies to friends (on BTS' behalf) via word of mouth.

Graphics to me add to the immersion factor and to the WOW factor. I don't want graphics at the expense of gameplay either. To suggest otherwise is to not know me or to misread my post. But to say that CM can't be cosmetically upgraded is to say BTS isn't up to the task.

I really appreciate that BTS lowered the price of CMAK. The mere fact that they did perhaps adds a sliver of weight to my initial post; that BTS realized that some gamers might not buy it because of what it did not provide. I don't know.

All I was trying to say, all I was trying to do, was to be honest with BTS as a loyal fan. Do I need to be told that my desire to see new graphics is a crappy one? No. I do not.

According to some of the logic put forth here, SSI should be cranking out Computer Ambush 2003 complete with Black and White graphics, Asterisks, and letters for soldiers. Really folks.

CM2 will be great because the folks behind it are great. I would just have preferred to let the MOD community drum up Afrika Korps battles while BTS uses the past X months time to work on the next engine. That's all.

And ianc, thanks for chiming in at the expense of a flaming Seanachi. And thanks to BTS for making the game you love to make and we love play.

TeAcH

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Originally posted by TeAcH:

Besides, it looks like you just enjoy watching yourself type WAY too much. I mean, do you really talk like that to people outside of a forum?

Oddly enough, yes he does. I've been up to visit him twice, and the crap that he spews here is the crap that spews outta his mouth
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