Mt. Monticello - 120 turn monster - advice?

[Znarf]

I'm currently designing a 120+ turn battle. It simulates the 15th Infantry attack on Mt. Monticello from the hours of 02:00 on. It is based on the account at

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/volturno/volturno-first.htm (see map No. 10 and the accompanying text).

I thought about modelling this as an operation, but according to the historical account, a 120+ turn battle seems best. It will actually be semi-historical, because I had to "fill in" some detail about the battlefield (e.g., a vineyard here, a house there, etc.), and the OOB will include a couple platoons of tanks as reinforcements.

This is going to be a Human v. Axis AI scenario only. As you can guess, it is a real challenge to playtest against the AI, since it takes a lot of time). The map is 2k N/S and 1.44k E/W. Currently it is about 13600+ total points (about 6500 for Axis and 6900 for Allied)

Given the amount of time I will spend on this, I would like it to be played by as many CMAK'ers as possible. So I'm looking for advice - before I release this, I would like to know from the gamers out there what you DO NOT look for in such a long, open-ended battle. That is, what causes you to abandon a scenario halfway through the battle (other than a fair whooping by the AI (and I stress FAIR, I try not to design unfair scenarios)).

I think I know what most players like in battles from reading this form and from reading reviews on SD, but I would also like to know what drives you nuts and causes you to abandon a game before its over. I want to avoid such mistakes for this one.

[Runyan99]

I have designed a few 120 turn battles.

Most people seem not to like them. I wish you luck.

My only recommendation is to maximize the small arms ammunition in the editor.

[Michael Dorosh]

Znarf, every player is different and has their own likes or dislikes. Personally, if a scenario seems unwinnable by the middle of the game, that kills it. I like nailbiters, will lots of action right up to the end of the game. Having to polish off one last platoon with 25% of the turns remaining is seldom fun. If you are dead set on 120 turns, I'd suggest not doing it for its own sake, but playtesting the scenario so that the number of turns are actually appropriate for the forcs involved. If it turns out the game can be played to conclusion in 75 turns, no one is going to want to sit through 45 more turns of stalemate just to get to the end, if you know what I mean.

If you are planning on brining reinforcements in late in the game, for example, then 120 turns may be appropriate. If it means a 2000 metre advance to contact through mud (meaning no action until one side slogs through 50 turns of walking to meet the other guys), that is a bit of a turn off, again from my perspective.

Cory raises the excellent point about ammo loadouts, and you do need to be concerned about the ability of units to actually fight for 120 turns, if that is your intent. They can't do it, for the most part. FOs have a couple of minutes of shells, most tanks can fire off their ammo in 3 or 4 minutes, even HMGs in close contact can go dry in under 10 minutes.

So basically, you need to ask yourself why you are designing for 120 turns. In real life, units in the front lines replenished over the course of a battle - this is not simulated in CM battles, and in operations it is simulated by the break between battles.

There have been some very good scenarios with long time limits, but they have had those limits for a reason, generally speaking. If yours does as well, no problem.

[yapma]

i would never play a 120 turn scenario against the AI.

To me, it sounds grossly laborious.

[Mark Gallear]

Go for an Op - ends the ammo problem - ends people packing in half way through and being put off by 120 turns. Anyway you will only know how long it should last after you have playtested it.

As an Op, 120 turns at 30 each is 4 games - a small to medium sized Op. (Although you may find 20 turns per game works fine!)

Just have decided oif you are going to do it one one visible map with objective flags or a rolling map where the objective is to get to fight your way to the other side.

Ops are harder to design than scenarios lots more variables but is got to be better than a 120 turn scenario.

(If you do it as op you are going to have to redo the map you cannot convert it - scream no not again here :eek: !)