poppy Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Video games are made by introverts in the hope that extroverts will buy them. But Suprise Suprise, introverts like myself love these games. But not on line. We have all the interaction with other real people that we need at the workplace or the local shopping center. We introverts need relaxation with a game with its own mind.[AI] Where we can play war, and not have to deal with other personalities. Take it from us BF build a game with an AI that cant be beat and the introverts of the world will beat a path to your door paved with gold. poppys 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Easier said than done! Personally I applaud CM's AI, which can give a very good fight in a scenario designed with its limitations in mind. But every game I play against the AI just reminds me of how much better it is to play against a thinking opponent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted November 27, 2004 Author Share Posted November 27, 2004 I agree with you Martyr, It is easier said than done, And your illustration of playing against a thinking opponet is well taken. But, as in computer chess, a comptuer profile can be created that will challenge the best human player in Combat Mission in attack or defense. The capability of BF to do this is a given, the incentive is the question. poppys 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Indeed, even with all of its short comings, its still one of the best AIs out there. If you want a tougher fight against the AI, play battles that others say they cannot beat when playing the AI. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted November 27, 2004 Author Share Posted November 27, 2004 I agree with you also Pzman, IM thinking about the direction that BF is taking with CMx2 and since they are silent in this respect then IM doing what I can to input my and others ideas of what they would like to buy in a video game. poppys 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Originally posted by poppys: I agree with you also Pzman, IM thinking about the direction that BF is taking with CMx2 and since they are silent in this respect then IM doing what I can to input my and others ideas of what they would like to buy in a video game. poppys Last I heard they had some really impressive plans for AI. Something about "memory", for one thing. But my mole at the BFC turned up floating face down in the Danube several months ago, a steel spike in his back. So what do I know? Maybe thier plans have changed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Still waiting for a wargame to have an interface (DLL or similar) so that you can plug in your own AI. If that doesn't capture the Introverts then I don't know 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 The AI is both an idiot and a sneaky clever bastard - it often does stupid things but every once in a while it surprizes you. I enjoy fighting the AI at times but humans are always appreciated for their quile and unusual approaches. The AI's plodding attack is annoying at times, especially from a designers point of view. As CMx2 AI will be built for a more capable computer - more computational power should increase the AIs capacity to confound and destroy human opponents. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 It surprised the hell out of me in a scenario I was playtesting yesterday, using a reinforcement group light tanks carrying infantry in a flank attack down a gully to behind my positions, then proceeding to whip the snot out of my dug in Panzergrenadiers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Yep, my favorite memory of the AI was the fifth or sixth time I played the game. I'd set up a defensive position and the AI came right at me frontally, right up the road between to large patches of woods, I started knocking out German armour and infantry at a rapid pace - about fifteen turns into the game a Pz IV came around the extreme left flank and started to roll up my position with relative ease, I sent forces to stop that tank and then another showed up on the Left flank! Got me good. I made one of my first posts on the forum saying that a large thumb had come from out the sky and squashed my tanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tondu Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 I agree with just about everyone. Not sure I'd want what Redwolf wants though. If all computer games go in that direction, I'll just find something else to spend my money on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Originally posted by Le Tondu: I agree with just about everyone. Not sure I'd want what Redwolf wants though. If all computer games go in that direction, I'll just find something else to spend my money on. Why? I think such an ability would improve any game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akula2 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 What is meant by: plug in your own AI ? Would that mean that the AI would learn from my own playstyle? Opponents? Or does that mean that we could customize the AI's behavior to suit a particular scenario? :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Originally posted by Akula2: What is meant by: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> plug in your own AI ? Would that mean that the AI would learn from my own playstyle? Opponents? Or does that mean that we could customize the AI's behavior to suit a particular scenario? :confused: </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 That the AI could be modded. Mind you, not the parts of the AI that handle the individual behaviour of units (i.e. TacAI; that would make it possible to cheat in 2 player games), but to make the computer opponent use better tactics. Or maybe use specific tactics for certain scenarios. Although, it'd require proper documentation (and l33t 5kilz) to be useful I think... It has been revealed before, though, that they are thinking of allowing a far greater scale of instructing the AI by a scenario designer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 I'd guess he means develop your own AI. Making an AI to beat a human is actually a lot harder for an open, free form game like CMAK than for Chess. A lot of Chess is remembering moves that have happened before and it's fixed on squares after all )I know CMAK is too, but they're a lot smaller). People are now saying a true test of computer AI, in the Turing test context, is a computer that can play Go. IMHO, CMx is a lot more involved even than Go. Charles has a task on his plate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Originally posted by Sergei: It has been revealed before, though, that they are thinking of allowing a far greater scale of instructing the AI by a scenario designer. When did they reveal that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 I don't remember, in the Spring or something... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Yeah, I meant writing a complete AI, like you can for all the Quake clones. Guess I'll have to wait for an OpenSource wargame to come along for that. As for as customizing/scripting would go, it would be neat if the TacAI would mostly be replaced by SOP settings and present a little if/and/or/not graph to tweak - like Steel Beasts does. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Originally posted by Soddball: It surprised the hell out of me in a scenario I was playtesting yesterday, using a reinforcement group light tanks carrying infantry in a flank attack down a gully to behind my positions, then proceeding to whip the snot out of my dug in Panzergrenadiers. I just finished a QB against the AI. Me, as attacking 'Mericans against defending Germans. I was surprised that the only enemy "armor" I ran into were two flack trucks that got taken out by my light arms fire. No other vehicles in evidence. Until the game ended and I saw that the AI had set a Brumbar, five PSW330's and a StuG way the feck over on one side of the map, guarding a flag I had decided at the start to ignore because there was no good cover on the approaches. They just sat there throughout the game while I overran the other positions. That's the first time I've ever gotten such a lucky break from the AI. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akula2 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Originally posted by Redwolf: Yeah, I meant writing a complete AI, like you can for all the Quake clones. Guess I'll have to wait for an OpenSource wargame to come along for that. As for as customizing/scripting would go, it would be neat if the TacAI would mostly be replaced by SOP settings and present a little if/and/or/not graph to tweak - like Steel Beasts does. It would be kinda cool to orchestrate the AI for specific battles with "if-then" eventualitys. Old Subcommand had a mission editor that allowed something along those lines. Perhaps some ideas will come out of the work they're doing with DW. Harpoon also tied quite a few orders to different waypoint "legs". The editor/player could change his battle group formation to adress changing axis' of threat or sensor activity each leg. For instance he might not emit for the first leg then upon reaching the second leg he might light off his radars intermittently with variables making it erratic if not completely random. I'd imagine it would involve quite a bit of work to get CM to do that but it would be awsome. It would be nice for a scenario designer to order a tank coming around a street corner to turn his turret into that turn like I imagine a real tanker would probably do. Bends in the road ... so on. I'm sure many designers would love to have various capabilities in order to orchestrate a battle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Well, there are really two "tuneable" things here. The global AI aka the programmed opponent can be irected and fed with a few predesigned plans for each scenario, like TacOps and ATF do for now. But I think it would be even better for SOP settings to get rid of parts of the TacAI. Steel Beasts does that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurtzDonut Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 One way to give the AI a leg up is to do 2 or 3 shots of Whisky, Rum, Tekillya, or whatever in short order, before you start a QB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwdjohn Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 I played a Westwall scenario as the Americans against AI. The briefing told me to expect plenty of bunkers and pillboxes. By the time i finish however, the AI had set up a "fort" using about 2-3 bunkers and 2-3 pillboxes. It would've been a beast to tackle, except all the boxes faced the same way. Dumb Ai. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooz Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 My two cents...New games released--notably Halo 2 and the upcoming squad based WW2 shooter "Brothers in Arms" speak much about their AI learning AND remembering. This seems to be the new trend in PC games and I can't wait to see the results. Give me a game that has an AI as smart as Halo 2, graphics like "Hidden and Dangerous 2", and the PLAYABILITY of CM, and I will happily live out my retirement in peace (and say to hell with fishing!). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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