Engineers in CMAK/CMETO

[pcelt]

After a long break from the game I have returned to install CMETO over CMAK and am really enjoying these battles again.

But I am rather hazy re certain actions and would appreciate some brief info re this particular sitn.I have a memory from the past in CMAK of allied engineer squads sometimes hurling demolition charges at enemy tanks with a good chance of doing real damage.

May I request some info re the range at which this action is possible--and secondly is it necessary to issue an order to fire at-- or to assault the tank or is it best left to the engineer unit and its AI.

Any feedback much appreciated

[Dook]

IIRC, range for demo charges is 29 m. Within that range, engineers will throw them, provided they're not pinned; outside of that range, they won't.

If you are using the demo charges to blow up a building or want to use them against a specific location, you can use area fire. Within the DC range, a "use explosives" command should be available.

Against tanks, you are better off letting the AI do the targeting. The engineers will typically use the demos if they are within range and not pinned. Sometimes it takes a while. If the tank is not mobile, you can use the "use explosives" command to target the ground underneath the tank.

Note that you have no control over how many DCs the engineers will use.

[MOS was 71331]

I've never seen the "use explosives" command Dook mentions. His exact sentence is Within the DC range, a "use explosives" command should be available. Perhaps such a command "should be available," but is it?

[pcelt]

Dook---Many thanks for that very helpful summary.

Im not sure Ive ever seen the "use explosives"

command. So this command should appear whenever your engineers are within 29m of a building or a non-mobile tank ? ---Is this right ?

Many thanks

[bitchen frizzy]

The "use explosives" option appears when you give an engineering unit an "area fire" target within 30m, if they have any satchel charges.

[pcelt]

Thanks for the clarificatiom

One final query---re attacking a tank--- the engineers are situated in a building a little beyond the 29m "throwing distance" from a moving tank ---- would the squad , if ordered to "run" toward the tank, use their charges as soon as they come within range.

Thanks

[Baron von Beergut]

yes I think they will if they have "follow vehicle" order and get close enough and not pinned, but probably they will get shot up first? Good luck sir

[Broompatrol]

I beleive the engineers need to be stationary to prep the charges. So , I think if you send your men running after a tank you may not get the results you are hoping for.

[pcelt]

Thsnks all for all the insights and clarification.

Broompatrol you are probably right about possibly not getting the results I hope for----but that seems to sum up much of life ----Soldier on.........

[Sivodsi]

Not just engineers: many German units have a grenade bundle for which the 'use explosives' command appears (if area targeted within 30m).

[Philippe]

Is it actually a command, or just something that appears under the area fire message when you target at 30 meters or less? I didn't know there was any choice involved (not that I can think of any reason why you would use area fire at close range other than for hunting voles).

[GSX]

Yes its a command. When you choose a target any unit that can use explosives will have a 'use explosives' statement at the end of your target line.

[Colonel J Lee]

I've always wondered about the 30 meters or less range. Isn't that kind of far to be chucking satchel charnges? Just wondering what you guys think and whether this was possible...

[GSX]

Like Grenading a Tank I think that its meant to be an abstract of one of your guys getting in close and doing the business.

Thats my take anyway.

[Dandelion]

There is a command exactly the way Dook describes. It will appear whenever relevant (infantry (not exclusively engineers) equipped with Demo charges (not grenade bundles, as these are treated as antitank (antitrack) weapons in the game) within 29 meters of any enemy, and issued with a "fire" order).

The range of the use of explosives is, according to previous announcements by the BFC, to reflect the men actually applying explosives. Seeing as the squad actually is supposed to disperse over an area much larger than the dot-on-the-map that it appears in the game (and within which it can be affected by firepower). The men are not meant to throw explosives at all.

It certainly looks like they are throwing them, raising arms and the DC flying through the air, But no. It is applied. It is quite a challenge imagining these men applying explosives upon moving individual infantymen, but there you have it.

Of course. With this function, the entire Raison Daitre of the flamethrower entirely vanishes. There is absolutely no point wahtsoever in buying any FT in any battle, when you can instead use the 29 meter ranged... applyable, DC.

The sole exception being mines. Only DC will remove mines, FTs won't cut the mustard.

Of course, if encountering mines, you will not be given the command option "use explosives" but simply have to wait for the men to use it on their own initative. Which might take up to five minutes or so.

Chop chop

D.

[Colonel J Lee]

Very good Dandelion. I actually remember reading the bit about the 29 meters simulating the men getting in close. When you get over 40 years old you forget a lot of things you once knew!!

BTW, I used a flamethrower team in a PBEM game against a friend who was tenaciously holding a building with three veteran Russian squads. I could not break the hold. However, this last turn, a Flamethrower of mine moved up and, while two of my squads kept the Russians engaged in a firefight, the FT torched the whole building. It was amazing. After the second burst, the Russian squads (all of them) ran out of the building. I like them if you use them carefully.

[Heinrich505]

Dook and Dandelion,

Aha, that explains it. I couldn't remember if it was 30 meters or 29 meters. Which now makes perfectly good sense, as my squad of pioneers were perfectly content to sit at exactly 30 meters away, while the M3 Halftrack cowered near a hedgerow, after taking an initial near hit of a satchel charge, and getting shocked by small arms fire. Eventually they got "fausted" from the grenadier squad on the first floor of the building next to where the halftrack was licking it's wounds. The pioneers were content to wait it out, at exactly 30 meters. Somehow the halftrack crew knew how to retreat exactly 30 meters away. Very crafty, zees Canadians.....

As to flamethrowers, I am plowing through the Blut Und Ehre operation, where Panzer Meyer is leading the HJ against the Canadians. The Canadians seem to have a flamethrower team assigned to every unit, all hiding in the woods or scattered trees. I had them flame a Puma, which was immediately abandoned. I had them flame a Panzer Mark IV, several times, which then promptly blew up, with no survivors. And worse still, I had them flame a full squad of grenadiers from about 20 meters, twice, with only one guy escaping injury, panicking and fleeing (quite understandable), while his 8 buddies were torched. As the second gout of flame was still splashing all over the squad of men, the flamethrower team was immediately throwing their hands up and surrendering to a nearby Mark IV. If ever there was a time I was not in the mood to take prisoners, that was it. Flamethrowers seem to be VERY effective in this scenario.

Heinrich505