V Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Point wise in a game of CMAK or CMBB? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Depends on who he is. If he is elite SS tank commander, Michael Wittmann, plenty. If he is green US tank commander, Joe Smith, who is newly arrived in Normandy, not much. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 A TC is worth the points the tank cost devided by the amount of crewmembers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimthane Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Pardon me for doubting, but are you so sure, Elmar? I always hunt bailed crews on principle, but I'm not sure they're worth so much. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkin Muffley Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 A TC is worth the points the tank cost devided by the amount of crewmembers... when the tank itself remains alive (i.e. he's been topped by a sniper or aircraft etc.) If you've already killed the tank, you've got most (all?) of your points and culling the remaining crew is mostly being neat and depriving opponent of extra info 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 So bailed crews are not worth many points? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkin Muffley Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Originally posted by V: So bailed crews are not worth many points? There's the rub: I can't check at present but it wouldn't take much of a test to find out. But I would go on a limb and say that a tank suffering a catastrophic hit with no survivors is not generating *that* many more points than a tank that's hit with 4 out of 5 crew escaping to the undergrowth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Bailed crews are worth extra. It's a way to reduce the tendency in CM:BO of people using bailed-out crews as expendable scouts for their main force. Historically, when a tank was hit, the crew bailed, they ran if they were able to, and headed back to base. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkin Muffley Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 OK, so a dead tank, however it dies, is worth a specific amount. If crew escape, they can be killed for extra points: I'm guessing that these extra points are nice to have but not as much as the the typical 20% of tank worth gained for topping the commander when the tank is alive. So, to maximise points, kill the commander, blow up the tank and hunt down the crew? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Bingo. Then jump on their charred corpses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkin Muffley Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 ...and pull their wings off. Obviously best achieved with your monitor outside in sunshine and using a magnifying glass. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Originally posted by Merkin Muffley: OK, so a dead tank, however it dies, is worth a specific amount. If crew escape, they can be killed for extra points: I'm guessing that these extra points are nice to have but not as much as the the typical 20% of tank worth gained for topping the commander when the tank is alive. So, to maximise points, kill the commander, blow up the tank and hunt down the crew? Not really, if I understand you right. I doubt the TC is extra. I assume which ever way you kill the tank is good. The amount of crew you kill, if any, before the death clock runs out should be irrelevant. Only the crew after bailing out is additional to the tanks worth. But killing TCs if killing tanks seems impossible is well worth it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 I ran a test on a regular T-34. The tank was worth 130 points and the crew was worth 12. There is no way that I can tell what the TC is worth since he is not differentiated in any way from the rest of the crew. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 Originally posted by Soddball: Bailed crews are worth extra. It's a way to reduce the tendency in CM:BO of people using bailed-out crews as expendable scouts for their main force. That was one of my brother's favorite tactics. He justified it by saying they were doing what they could for their country, which was getting gunned down by an MG-34... I tried to tell him, those are valuable guys, but he didn't care, he was a right gamey bastard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 I know that when you 'eliminate' a TC it severly hampers the tank, putting it into shock for some period of time depending on crew experience, losing range of vision and I imagine accuracy. I just want to know how much I get when I snipe one of those arrogant TC's hanging out of the turret in the middle of a firefight... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 Originally posted by Panther Commander: I ran a test on a regular T-34. The tank was worth 130 points and the crew was worth 12. There is no way that I can tell what the TC is worth since he is not differentiated in any way from the rest of the crew. Couldn't you just have a sharpshooter and a tank, keep playing until you kill the TC then end the scenario and see what kind of points he was worth? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Gents, I've run several tests. A single, un-buttoned tank, set up surrounded by 6 elite sharpshooters. 1 turn. The most striking result is how often elite snipers miss at 80 meters. I ran almost a dozen tests. Eliminating those in which no crew members were hit or those in which I simply messed resulted in 3 good samples. Anyway, here's what I found: Pz IVH, regular, 134 points. Dead TC: 26 points Pz VIE early, elite, 327 points. Dead TC: 65 points. Captured Renault, conscript, 29 points. Dead TC 14 points. Conclusions: Well, the interesting point is that the PzIVH and PzVIE each had 5 crewmembers. The point value of the the dead/wounded crewmember was equal to 20% of the total vehicle value. The captured Renault is a 2 man vehicle. The dead/wounded crewmember was worth 50% of the total vehicle value. (Note that the Pz's also had driver's exposed in the graphic. I have no way of telling if it was the driver or tank commander who was hit.) Extrapolating from these results would lead to a simple formula that the value of a dead/wounded un-buttoned crew-member is proportional his percentage of the total number of crewmen in the vehicle, multiplied by the total value of the vehicle. Someone else needs to take this experiment to the next level. Namely, if you kill/wound an un-buttoned crewmember THEN destroy the vehicle, would you get awarded MORE points than the total, initial, value of the vehicle? Regards, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 ( So bailed crews are not worth many points?Bailed out crew members make excellent close-range-shoot-me-recon units.... how gamey hihihihi ) If crew members really have a value; is there a difference between battles and operations? I mean; in operations you can reuse the crew when the tank is being repaired. You could expect that reusable crew is worth sumfink? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 I didn't realise the significant amount of points you get for whacking the TCs. I am now very curious as to how this works in regards to operations. Towards the end of a battle I am not as worried about losing a TC as I know that in a few turns at the start of the next battle the tank will again have a full compliment of crew members. But ... if losing a TC every battle for multiple battles is resulting in cumulative points for the enemy I wouldn't be as free in letting them stick their heads out the hatch if it is dangerous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 The value probably changes if the tank is subsequently killed. Crew members killed out side the tank are worth normal crew value, i.e. 5 points regular. if you have an extermely low-value 5-man tank you can probably make a plus by knocking it out after it had lost its TC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 One thing to keep in mind, when an AFV is unbuttoned and they take a casualty, it isn't necessarily the TC. It could be anyone that has access to a hatch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Gents, Quick test which needs refinement: one PzIVF2 on a small island. 150 points. Sharpshooters take out one crewman. Gun then destroys tank. Crew evacuates. 3 of the 4 remaining become casualties. One survivor captured. Points awarded are 179 (14 for capture). Are the captured points part of the total or separate? More in a few days... Regards, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 Originally posted by Vergeltungswaffe: One thing to keep in mind, when an AFV is unbuttoned and they take a casualty, it isn't necessarily the TC. It could be anyone that has access to a hatch. So it is random? I always thought it was the tank commander, especially in the case of small arms fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 Originally posted by c3k: Gents, Quick test which needs refinement: one PzIVF2 on a small island. 150 points. Sharpshooters take out one crewman. Gun then destroys tank. Crew evacuates. 3 of the 4 remaining become casualties. One survivor captured. Points awarded are 179 (14 for capture). Are the captured points part of the total or separate? More in a few days... Regards, Ken It's been a few days. :cool: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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