Simon Fox Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Originally posted by gibsonm: But to be fair most of full time units were either on their way back from the Middle East or already stuck in Changi and bound for a terrible fate. The distinction between AIF and Militia can hardly be compared to that between Regular and Reserve. It was more like volunteer vs conscript and even that isn't entirely accurate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
average Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Fox,the point of the post was, that the AIF was also comprised of pre war milita. Almost all the officers and men had pre-war service in the CMF, and all of them volunteered for active service after the outbreak of hostilities. That point you made yourself. Having read your second post you understand the formation and raising of the the various branches of the services. At the very least your posts have been inconsistent. On one hand you suggest that full time units like the ARA were involved but on the other you deny the dicotomy. Obviously I am not degrading the regular army, they are outstanding at what they do, simply having a go in a not altogether serious way, at the historical revisionism that some members of the ARA seek to perputate for a variety of reasons. If you want me lead you to the very essence of what I was suggesting, it is that the ARA does not fill the shoes of the AIF. That was posted in a very light hearted fashion. As for Battlefronts decision, I would simply state that it is for them to decide where the commercial imperative lies in running their operation. [ June 02, 2004, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: average ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Cairns Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Given that we are seeing genuine interest from Defence Departments for an accurate turn based simulation for historical scenarios, what kind of demand would there be for a modern day version. I remember this being suggested some time ago and MATT pointing out that the nature of modern combat, particularly the lethality of modern weapons , would make it difficult if not just a poor game. However that was pre Iraq and Afghanistan where it would seem the nature of combat on the ground has very much moved back to focus on infantry with limited support, and away from airpowewr and artillery. Peter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Originally posted by Peter Cairns: Given that we are seeing genuine interest from Defence Departments for an accurate turn based simulation for historical scenarios, what kind of demand would there be for a modern day version. You mean like TACOPS? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sand digger Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Hmmm, is the ADF getting the version where the Aussies run away under fire? "There's too many of them", geez I've heard that a few times. And perhaps now those bloody Boys AT rifles will be consigned back to the QM where they belong, together with the Stens, although they'd have to go back to the Brits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Apparently the BOYS ATR's were quite useful as sniper rifles at a pinch. Suffice to say, once hit your target doesn't get up. Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junk2drive Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 usmc raiders took boys rifles with them. most japanese tanks had fairly light armor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithuanian Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Seems as good a place as any to post this: What is a Duntroon graduate, and why were they not permitted to rise above the rank of Major in the 1st AIF? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
average Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Duntroon is our version of sandhurst. The first class graduated in 1908 or 1909 and formed the core of the standing army's officer corps. Duntroon or RMC-A is now the only officer training school in australia for the army. Previously the OCS school at portsea operated as well as seperate university regiments (where I went). The university regiments now fall within RMC. OCS was closed. Im not sure about why they would have been thus restricted except to suggest that perhaps it had to do with the problems of having a force draw down and the long term sustainabality of the forces. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithuanian Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Originally posted by average: Duntroon is our version of sandhurst. The first class graduated in 1908 or 1909 and formed the core of the standing army's officer corps. .... Im not sure about why they would have been thus restricted except to suggest that perhaps it had to do with the problems of having a force draw down and the long term sustainabality of the forces. Now I am even more puzzled - who would have been higher than Major? [ June 09, 2004, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Lithuanian ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
average Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 The officers above the rank of major tended to be drawn from the militia or in the early stages of the war the British Army or the Indian Army. In addition the core of the colonial defence forces were unitl a short time before the war BA. My great grandfather was head of the Artillery for instance in the Queensland Defence Force and then a Col in the gunners during the 1st world war. Thats pretty typical of the senior leadership of the AIF, although as the war dragged on increasingly milita officers occupied the star ranks. A lot of the generals and colonels were lawyers , engineers and public servants in civilian life. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sand digger Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: Apparently the BOYS ATR's were quite useful as sniper rifles at a pinch. Suffice to say, once hit your target doesn't get up. Regards Jim R. Well they don't seem to be effective like that in CMAK. I've tried to use them for exactly that purpose with never any result. But my main point is that the Boys is a section fixture in CMAK whereas in real life they were hardly ever used and certainly were not a section weapon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrcar Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 In the old days Duntroon graduated Staff Officers... they were trained not to command but to manage the staff positions in the units (Chief of staff down). At the time the "regular" Army was very small and just administered the basics, it was the Militia units where all the combat power was. Today Duntroon graduates officers trained in both command and staff work. cheers Rob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
average Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Good point jrcar, the regulars were basically cadre, but I always thought that Duntroon trained officers for both command and staff work. Although its entirely questionable if officers were before at least the 2nd world war schooled at all adaquately in command of sub-unit and tatics etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrcar Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 They were supposed to be the handfull of "professionals" to advise the far greater number of militia and volunteer officers. Some did command, but cadets at Duntroon are still called "staff cadets". I graduated there in 1991 Cheers Rob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Let's keep this product order in its proper perspective. I imagine the scene at the Aussie DoD went something like this: Roight! Everyone knows that Australia (sound of opening beers) won WWII! Stands to reason! We were there, we fought like bloody hell, and the Germans and the Japanese clearly went home with a thick ear and their tail between their legs! Well, the world's become a damn dangerous place again, and we've been attacked by cowardly scum left and right, so we'd best dust off our knuckles and get ready for a punch-up! Now, as regards our obvious victory in WWII...anyone remember how we did it? Anyone? Damn. Right, then, here's what we'll do. We had one of the Department underweasels go rat about on the Web, and they came up with this damn interesting game called 'Combat Mission: Afrika Corps', and it's all about how Australia won WWII in the desert and such. So what say we buy several thousand fecking copies of the thing and set our lads to playing it, oi? You know what they say: if you put a million monkeys into a room with a million typewriters and give them a million years, they'll eventually re-create the works of Shakespeare! Well, crikey! A thousand bloody Aussies are as good as any million bloody monkeys any day, and Shakespeare was a bloody Pommie ponce, so our lads probably won't take more than a decade to come up with how we handed the bloody Germans their arse! Whadya say?! Shall we contact these 'Merican game designer buggers and buy the game? We can probably hide the whole cost in the departmental 'Beer Budget'. I mean, if we're all willing to have one less than 40 beers for the next few departmental barbies we could do it without breaking a sweat... silence Oh, c'mon, lads! It's for Australia! misty eyed silence finally broken by thundering cheers of approval Right! That's decided then! Now, about this plan to invade New Zealand in order to create a defensive 'comfort zone'... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sand digger Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 How could Aussie win WW2 when we all know that the yanks did, all by themselves with their superior everygoddamthing? On a just slightly more serious note, the Aussie DoD patch is going to be made commercially available free to Aussies? To compensate for all the Aussie related errors in CMAK? Boys rifles, Sten guns, White scout cars........... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Originally posted by sand digger: How could Aussie win WW2 when we all know that the yanks did, all by themselves with their superior everygoddamthing? What the hell, and you're an immigrant spokesman for how wonderful Australia is, eh? Or has Australia given up on teaching 'proper English' then (which, given that the buggers communicate in some sort of drunken private code, I'd be more than willing to believe). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Bluebottle Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Originally posted by Seanachai: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by sand digger: How could Aussie win WW2 when we all know that the yanks did, all by themselves with their superior everygoddamthing? What the hell, and you're an immigrant spokesman for how wonderful Australia is, eh? Or has Australia given up on teaching 'proper English' then (which, given that the buggers communicate in some sort of drunken private code, I'd be more than willing to believe). </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Originally posted by Private Bluebottle: we could win the Boer War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Malaya, Borneo, Vietnam, Cambodia, Somalia, Afghanistan and of course, bloody Irak without breakin' a sweat. Oh, yes. No one questions all that ****e. But what have you all done for us lately, eh?! Feel free to take your socks off while you work out the answer on every available digit... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 17, 2004 Share Posted June 17, 2004 Originally posted by sand digger: How could Aussie win WW2 when we all know that the yanks did, all by themselves with their superior everygoddamthing? On a just slightly more serious note, the Aussie DoD patch is going to be made commercially available free to Aussies? To compensate for all the Aussie related errors in CMAK? Boys rifles, Sten guns, White scout cars........... LOL I mentioned that before also. I don't think we're supposed to talk about the "public" patch publicly.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: LOL I mentioned that before also. I don't think we're supposed to talk about the "public" patch publicly.... Why haven't you been deported to a Commonwealth Penal Colony. That's what I'd like to know. Bet you've got a picture of the Queen right by your bed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Bluebottle Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Originally posted by Seanachai: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Private Bluebottle: we could win the Boer War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Malaya, Borneo, Vietnam, Cambodia, Somalia, Afghanistan and of course, bloody Irak without breakin' a sweat. Oh, yes. No one questions all that ****e. But what have you all done for us lately, eh?? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Private Bluebottle: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Seanachai: Oh, yes. No one questions all that ****e. But what have you all done for us lately, eh?? </font> Weeelllll, accordin' to your little President fella and your Deputy Secretrary of State and your Secretrary of State fellas, if our Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition was to be so unfortunate as to gain favour with the Australian electorate and his party was to win the majority of the Seats available in the House of Representatives at the next election, sometime later this year, the "Coalition of Willing" would fall into pieces and the war in Irak would be lost toute sweete. So we do appear to be doin' somethin' useful, accordingt to all them fellas in Washington, though I gotta admit, I'm buggered if I know, unless they appreciate having our present Prime Minister following them faithfully on a lead?And we just bought a bunch of M1A2’s which don’t fit our Logistic system but have “made in America” stamped on them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrcar Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Seanachai do you have a spy in our meetings?!? I suppose at your size you make a good fly on the wall... wonder if you were the fly we were betting on at the time... until one of our sheila's hit it with her thong. And everyone should know that Strine couting uses base 24 (number of beers in a slab for the uninitiated... Aussies under 13 and Yanks under 21). It's all part of our plan to take over the world, we're already the greatest sporting nation, now with a little bit of practise we can prove we could have won WW2... And Seanachai when are you dropping in? There is a long line up to "welcome" you. Cheers Rob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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