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Is there a mobile mount for the 88mm FlaK 36? I have often seen it on a wheeled chassis, like this:

FlaK 36 DP

Does this version dismount from the wheels for firing? Or is it just a variant not modeled in CMAK?

I'm trying to grasp how the DAK actually employed these guns in an attack role, as many accounts (Panzer Battles, War without Hate, etc.) relate.

In CM terms: How does one keep the big guns in support of the panzers when the damn things are immobile for the duration of the fight? How do you keep them survivable in the face of enemy FOs? The reality of the mobile version would make sense, but this isn't an option.


[ June 11, 2004, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Spotless ]

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Holy cow! Spot the Lurker!

I'd guess that laying the gun would be less accurate when on wheels. With wheels is towing configuration - the wheels are removed and the cruciform platform fixed down prior to firing

AIUI the use of ATGs in the attack, especially the Flak, was that these would be dug in to create a fall back position - if the Panzer force was attacked in strength, it could fall back through the anti-tank screen, which the pursuing allied tanks would then run into. It's rather difficult to model this on a CM scale.

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Exactly why Monty decided to stop trying to 'out-German the Germans' such as pursuing retreating armour into a destructive anti-tank screen. Suppose you learn those lessons the hard way!

I imagine the FlaK would also be most useful in its AAA role there also.

There's an idea for an operation right there...

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The 8,8 could be fired from the wheeled mount, and was. This was not encouraged in Russia, but was encouraged in the desert, due to the different nature of the warfare in the two theatres, and the different supply issues (the carriage was somewhat harder to come by in Russia, I guess). Accuracy would be less, but it could be brought into action more quickly, and move more quickly to escape counter-barrages.

This has not been modelled in CMAK. The regulations regarding this use that I have seen date from May 1943 (i.e. just after the Panzerarmee Afrika surrender).

@Big Jim

Your new sig is far more original.

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Originally posted by Andreas:

Accuracy would be less, but it could be brought into action more quickly, and move more quickly to escape counter-barrages.

I think ROF would be more affected than accuracy.

IIRC the cross section bars - thingies could be lowered so they touched ground keeping the mount relatively steady.

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You would set up the 88's in a rearward gun line yes, though they could also be brought into play mobile-for instance if you get the guns around behind an enemy (particularly in the desert where there were no traditional "front lines") in his line of retreat you could batter him with your panzers, he loses 3 or 4 tanks out of a regamental unit and thinks he got off lightly only to find a quickly thrown together line of 88's sitting behind him to ruin his day.

Also they could be brought around the battlefield, set up and used with such effecivness by their crews that you could fortify and breakin in a matter of minutes, freeing your tanks to exploit it without having to worry about being cut off and so on.

The reason the germans were so successful with their 88's is that they used them creativly and in ways shunned by the law abiding commanders-it was the same with a lot of their forces-and so their guns turned up in unexpected places and did things no one thought they could-basically if it has a reasonable chance of working, why the hell not try it?

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Upon further searching, I have yet to find photos of the 88s in action whilst on wheels. However, I did answer one question: the wheels on this mount detach, and the gun is lowered onto it's legs for firing. You can see the dismounted wheels on this page.

The interesting quote from this was:

"I am told that a well practiced crew could dismount a gun and be ready to fire in 20 seconds and remount the gun for traveling in less than a minute."
Unlimbering the gun...

I have seen a few artistic renditions or models that show the two side arms swung out and lowered to the ground while the wheel carriages are still on, like this. However, I would like to see the video mentioned to confirm it.

I gather that the "Bait and Switch" was the best way to get these nasties into place. Besides, if you can pop any British armor at 2000m+ you can afford to set up just out of sight and wait for the unfortunates to blunder in...

In CM, it's going to be interesting to try to implement these tactics, and it will take a proper map to do so. I guess I'll just have to get lucky on that score.

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