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CMX2: what about a new battle-type?


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Originally posted by willbell:

I'm amazed at how many people have construed freedom of speech to mean that they can do all the talking and everyone else has to shut up and listen.

.

That is exactly the freedom of speech. To be able to speak your opinion - assuming that you follow some basic social and ethical rules.

That is the essence of democracy everybody to have an opinion and be able to express it. If others do not buy or they disagree thats another story.

PS Yes I sended my donation.

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I would add that those of us interested in WW2, being educated about it as we presumably are, have a special obligation to oppose antisemitic or other race-supremicist lies. This is especially true when they crop up in our own circles.

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Originally posted by Martyr:

I would add that those of us interested in WW2, being educated about it as we presumably are, have a special obligation to oppose antisemitic or other race-supremicist lies. This is especially true when they crop up in our own circles.

Exactly.

And I find Steiner 14's signature most inappropriate for this forum.

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Hey Spartan, so how are you going to make me shut up and listen? Say what ever you want, I'll respond with what ever I want.

But I will not break the rules of this forum, for Dogface is right of course. I rarely even get into these but this one kind of pulled me in.

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Originally posted by willbell:

Hey Spartan, so how are you going to make me shut up and listen? Say what ever you want, I'll respond with what ever I want.

Hi Willbell in fact the opposite I will respect and hear your opinion. First of all you are a fellow player and secondly we are all here a community with common things to share. In any case I made my point about freedom of speech as long as it respects the others as well.

Me personnaly I am convinced that they sig is not verified but we should not make it so much an issue.

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Well then we agree that everyone here has the right to speak thier mind. I didn't bring up the criticism of your signature, but I agree that it is rude and provocative, which wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so pointless.

Anybody can say anything one time and then realize it was wrong. Sharon would have to have been an advocate of that position before you could actually pin such a rediculous statement on him.

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Originally posted by Pugilist:

Has anyone emailed the mods about the neo-Nazi? Garbage like that should result in an instant ban; no explanation needed or given.

No need...let them keep working on the new engine. Steiner seems to have effed off anyway.
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Iam reading this thread and iam getting worried.

Why do you attack steiner like this. His sig is not offensive against anyone.

I thought only in holland people could not say everything without getting killed or dont dare to say anything anymore, but iam wrong this over the hole world the same.

If you think people cannot say everything you are even worse.

So my belief is if you dont like it DONT READ IT

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What it matters whether Sharon said it or not? It matters the world... if he said it, there is nothing anybody could - or rather, should - say about removing it, ever. As that would be freedom of speech.

If he didn't say it (as evidence strongly suggests), it's not a quote, but a fabrication, and as such should be removed.

But on a different tangent, it's "nice" to see that everyone assumes Steiner is a Nazi, instead of just malinformed as to the validity of his sources.

It's reactions like these that gives the real Nazis much of their rhethorical ammunition in the first place: Failure to react matter-of-factly, providing proof to the contrary instead of swinging the anti-Semitic club against everybody.

(Sorry for dragging it across two different threads now, I already said most of my mind in how to remove ski and will finally shut up now.)

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Originally posted by Leopard_2:

But on a different tangent, it's "nice" to see that everyone assumes Steiner is a Nazi, instead of just malinformed as to the validity of his sources.

Well, first of all there are some suspicions about whether this is someone who was banned before under a different name. His political motivations are well known here. The second point is when refutation of the quote is posted, he stops responding. That doesn't suggest he's interested in the validity of the quote.

But as has been mentioned, this has gone on for too long, but perhaps the mods won't have to deal with it if he doesn't return. Having said that the quote would then remain in the archives, and I don't think BFC would like any such association on their board.

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Leopard,

Sorry, you are just dead wrong. Even if Sharon said it, it doesn't make it true. It would take a hell of a lot more than wishfull thinking and one statement to make the US a slave to anyone's desires. US policy is US policy based on what the US wants, plain and simple. If someone doesn't like US policy they can bitch and moan all the like, but it is plain stupidity to try to attribute it to some ethereal, all powerful cabal.

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Originally posted by willbell:

Leopard,

Sorry, you are just dead wrong. Even if Sharon said it, it doesn't make it true.

Doesn't matter. It's not about whether the statement is true, but about whether the quote is true. If it were, that would be indeed an issue of free speech, and I would take strong exception to any attempts of pressuring Steiner into removing it.

Since the quote is fabricated, the point is mood, and since Steiner obviously wouldn't budge, it's in the hands of the moderators now. I was just pointing out how some here swing to the opposite site just as extremely as Steiner here.

Can we put it to rest now?

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Originally posted by MAUS_TD:

Iam reading this thread and iam getting worried.

Why do you attack steiner like this. His sig is not offensive against anyone.

I thought only in holland people could not say everything without getting killed or dont dare to say anything anymore, but iam wrong this over the hole world the same.

If you think people cannot say everything you are even worse.

So my belief is if you dont like it DONT READ IT

Okay, post your real name, then we can google for your address and phone number, and post it here for others to see.

Where do you draw the line of free speech?

Better yet, post pictures of your mother here, and some of the more inventive guys can write stories about how she conceived you. If you don't like it, you wouldn't have to read it, eh...

Incidentally, where do you get off telling me what offends or doesn't offend me? That's offensive in itself... ;)

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This thread went wayyy off-topic. Can't believe I missed this. Anyway, locking this thread, and the decision if we ask Steiner to remove his sig or not will be made by the mods after an internal discussion.

Martin

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