Leprechaun Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 After reading some of POS's posts at the Blitz regarding the effect of different terrain on cover and concealment, I came up with the following list ranking terrain features from most to least effective. 1. Trench (exposure 9%, units hidden until enemy is within appox 20m, trench spotted at 200m) 2. Heavy Buildings (exposure 12-14%, units hidden ~20m) 3. Pines and Woods (exposure 16-17%, units hidden ~ 20m); treebursts from artillery not good for defender 4. Rubble (exposure 23%, units hidden ~ 20m) 5. Light Buildings (exposure 20%, units hidden ~ 20m); fairly easy to demolish with bad results for defending unit 6. Rough (exposure 30%, units remain hidden ~ 20m) 7. Scattered Trees (exposure 32%, unit hidden ~20m); danger of treebursts 8. Behind Wall (exposure 30%, remain hidden ~ 280m but if unit is hidden not spotted until 20m); unit has to be within 15m of wall to gain benefits 9. Brush (exposure 52%, hidden ~ 80m) 10. Rocky (exposure 50%, hidden ~ 100m) 11. Cemetery (exposure 55%, hidden ~ 100m) 12. Wheat (exposure 58%, hidden ~ 100m) 13. Hedge (exposure 60%, hidden ?); need to be within 15m to gain benefit 14. Fence (exposure 60%, hidden ?); need to be within 15m to gain benefit 15. Steppe (exposure 65%, hidden ~ 680m) 16. Soft (exposure 75%, hidden ~ 740m) 17. Open (exposure 75%, hidden ~ 880m) (Lower exposure #'s better) [ January 06, 2008, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Leprechaun ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kuenstler Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 Good info - thanks fot sharing it... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidFields Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Yes. Quite a helpful reminder. I often confuse Rocky and Rough--this reminds me how much better rough is. Also, I had forgotten how much less exposure heavy buildings give compared to light--I mostly had been thinking about the demolishing aspects. Hard to think of when I used a wall to help my men--since there is often high ground around to cancel their effect. I probably just need to find the right scenario to show their potential. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leprechaun Posted January 6, 2008 Author Share Posted January 6, 2008 Originally posted by Rankorian: Yes. Quite a helpful reminder. I often confuse Rocky and Rough--this reminds me how much better rough is. I have the same problem confusing rocky with rough. For some reason, when I'm playing, I think rocky is better. Also, I had forgotten how much less exposure heavy buildings give compared to light--I mostly had been thinking about the demolishing aspects. Yes, heavy buildings are a lot better as regards cover and are much more durable to boot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Just don't pack a whole platoon into a large city block stone building - when the enemy has SU-152s... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 When I have troops in a cemetery, the terrain detail window shows a picture of "rough": does a trench in a cemetery reduce the exposure more than a trench in the open? Or is it that the range at which the trench is spotted is reduced? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leprechaun Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 The trench exposure stays the same and it's always spotted at 200m regardless of where you put it. Foxholes' exposure ratings, on the other hand, vary with the type of terrain they are placed in. Not sure of the specifics but you can check POS's posts on the subject at the blitz: http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=31 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Thanks Leprechaun - in the middle of TCP.IP game now, axis attack. Need to gather for the final assault. Right hook coming up. This game rocks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidFields Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Originally posted by costard: This game rocks. The more I look at it, the more I think the abstractions done for CM were brilliant. One is never going to track every bullet, for example, or model every board/nail in a house. But the idea that the further away from the wall soldiers are, the more likely that the projectiles will hit something to sap the kill power...and keeping it at that conceptual level...seems absolutely appropriate and real. One could vary the probabilities according to building, or even have some random variability in the drop-off, but I don't see how the conceptual underpinning is going to be improved upon any time soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwatts Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Hm this is great but for one thing. When you say "units hidden until x meters" is that when they are deployed normally but holding fire, or even when they are shooting? Probably a stupid question but I'd hate to miss out on the usefull aspects of this because I didn't understand it well 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leprechaun Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Originally posted by jwatts: Hm this is great but for one thing. When you say "units hidden until x meters" is that when they are deployed normally but holding fire, or even when they are shooting? Probably a stupid question but I'd hate to miss out on the usefull aspects of this because I didn't understand it well Deployed normally and holding fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webs Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Originally posted by Leprechaun: After reading some of POS's posts at the Blitz regarding the effect of different terrain on cover and concealment, I came up with the following list ranking terrain features from most to least effective. 1. Trench (exposure 9%, units hidden until enemy is within appox 20m, trench spotted at 200m) 2. Heavy Buildings (exposure 12-14%, units hidden ~20m) 3. Pines and Woods (exposure 16-17%, units hidden ~ 20m); treebursts from artillery not good for defender 4. Rubble (exposure 23%, units hidden ~ 20m) 5. Light Buildings (exposure 20%, units hidden ~ 20m); fairly easy to demolish with bad results for defending unit 6. Rough (exposure 30%, units remain hidden ~ 20m) 7. Scattered Trees (exposure 32%, unit hidden ~20m); danger of treebursts 8. Behind Wall (exposure 30%, remain hidden ~ 280m but if unit is hidden not spotted until 20m); unit has to be within 15m of wall to gain benefits 9. Brush (exposure 52%, hidden ~ 80m) 10. Rocky (exposure 50%, hidden ~ 100m) 11. Cemetery (exposure 55%, hidden ~ 100m) 12. Wheat (exposure 58%, hidden ~ 100m) 13. Hedge (exposure 60%, hidden ?); need to be within 15m to gain benefit 14. Fence (exposure 60%, hidden ?); need to be within 15m to gain benefit 15. Steppe (exposure 65%, hidden ~ 680m) 16. Soft (exposure 75%, hidden ~ 740m) 17. Open (exposure 75%, hidden ~ 880m) (Lower exposure #'s better) Does this only apply to infantry? If so, has anybody worked up a similar chart for guns small and large? For vehicles? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abneo3sierra Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 There is a website mentioned elsewhere in this forum, which shows alot of work by a Chris who has put together spreadsheets and a decent database showing most of this, including things like hit%, kill% vs different units, etc..I will try to dig and find where I saw it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing 88's Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Originally posted by abneo3sierra: There is a website mentioned elsewhere in this forum, which shows alot of work by a Chris who has put together spreadsheets and a decent database showing most of this, including things like hit%, kill% vs different units, etc..I will try to dig and find where I saw it. I think this is what you are looking for: http://users.erols.com/chare/cm/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abneo3sierra Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Originally posted by Blazing 88's: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by abneo3sierra: . I think this is what you are looking for: http://users.erols.com/chare/cm/ </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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