Zalgiris 1410 Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 I know for absolute cirtainty that the 5th Leichte Division orrigionally arrived with a number of PanzerJagar Is with their 47mm L/43 guns, but I am wondering about wheither or when they might have been replaced with Marders in NA. I'm also positive that Rommell requested better ATGs, ie captured Russian 76.2mm ATGs and therefore; did they actually come on top of either Pz II or T-38 chasis especially for the 21st Panzer Division during 1942? OTOH it could have been the later 75mm Pak 40 mounted Marder IIs &/or IIIs that replaced the PZJgr Is in the Anti-Tank Abteilung of the 21st Panzer Division? I'm not sure but I don't think that neither the 15th Panzer or the 90th Leichte 'Africa' Divisions had any such equipment but then again I might be wrong on that for the whole of the North African campaigne. While on the subject I might as well ask if anyone knows if the 10th Panzer Division or other German formations brought any Marders with them to Tunisia? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Marder III 76.2 mm PaK 36®: Used captured Russian Model 36 76.2 mm L/54.8 gun. By May 1942 120 had been built and all but 3 went to North Africa to serve in the 33rd & 39th Panzerjägerabteilung of the 15th Panzer Division. Marder III Ausf H: Could penetrate 76 mm at 2,300 meters. Deployed in Russia, Tunisia, and Italy with Panzerjäger units of the Luftwaffe, SS, and Wehrmacht. From WWII Vehicles 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbertles Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Both Marder IIs and IIIs found their way into the Desert, where the 76.2 version of the III made the German supply situation just that much more complicated. The Russian 76.2 also was mounted on a Buessing-NAG 5-ton halftrack in two prototypes made specifically for the desert. The muzzle brake was removed from the gun, and a light armor shield provided for the crew. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 On a somewhat related note, I was reading up on the StuGs and StuHs from the website I posted above, and was surprised to see that several StuG Ausf A models fought at Gazala and Tobruk. All this time I was under the impression that the only StuGs to have seen service in NA were the 3 Ausf D's issued to the Sonderverband. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Originally posted by jbertles: Both Marder IIs and IIIs found their way into the Desert, where the 76.2 version of the III made the German supply situation just that much more complicated.I thought they were rechambered to take the German 75mm round. :confused: Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbertles Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Apparently not all of the guns mounted on the Marder IIs were rechambered, The unmodified ones were called 7.62cm FK 296®. Can't confirm that that particular model came to NA tho.... BTW, Kingfish - check out this site: http://ipmsfinland.org/keskustelu/read.php?f=1&i=8856&t=8237&v=t Finnish StuG III Ausf C/Ds and Ausf F/8s in North Africa! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Thanks, but that still leaves the question of what unit used StuGs at Gazala and Tobruk? The site you listed has the F/8s being shipped to 10th Panzer, who never saw action at either of these two locations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Google throws this up. It's a gaming website, so can't be accurate. Assault Guns Assault guns were extremely rare in Africa. The only two (the third was dropped into Athen harbour while loading!) StuG D assault guns to serve in the desert were with 288 zbV Afrika infantry regiment in 90. leichte Afrikadivision. These were lost at Gazala and El Alamein. Later in Tunisia 90. leichte and 10. Panzer divisions both received a battery of long-barrelled StuG F assault guns.Battlefront Article All the best Andreas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 www.afrikakorps.de has nothing on Stug A in Africa in the topics where Stugs are discussed. All the best Andreas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 If anyone would know, it's George Bradford of AFV News. He wrote and illustrated a book on the OOB of the Afrika Korps. Ask him here (free registration required). http://com-central.net/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=73 Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claus B Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jbertles: Both Marder IIs and IIIs found their way into the Desert, where the 76.2 version of the III made the German supply situation just that much more complicated.I thought they were rechambered to take the German 75mm round. :confused: Michael </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Claus B, If you're the same one I'm thinking of from my Panzer Elite days, why not put your site link in a sig? I'm sure many here would be interested. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claus B Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Originally posted by John Kettler: Claus B, If you're the same one I'm thinking of from my Panzer Elite days, why not put your site link in a sig? I'm sure many here would be interested. I've never played Panzer Elite, so perhaps not. I used to have a site running ("On Armour"), but that has been down for years. I was just checking something in an old thread here and saw Michaels post on the 7,62cm gun and thought I'd chip in Claus B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Claus B, Yes, that was the one. We PE types used it in tweaking the penetration model for the game. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claus B Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Originally posted by John Kettler: Claus B, Yes, that was the one. We PE types used it in tweaking the penetration model for the game. Regards, John Kettler So that would be the collection of penetration data, you were looking at? I worked a bit with David Honner back then and he incorporated some of my data on his "Gun vs Armour" site. That died, but there is a mirror here: http://gva.freeweb.hu/ Claus B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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