Avoiding Night Combat?

[kenfedoroff]

We are playing a CMAK Op (Gemmano) where I (as the Germans) chose to "Avoid night combat", whereas my opponent claims he tried to initiate night combat. I was able to avoid night combat. My opponent seems a little upset about the results (Hehehe, snicker) and we are both wondering what determines the decision in this case.

If the German chooses to avoid night combat, is he successful 100% of the time? -or-

Is there some random odds that come into play?

In a CMBB Op I am play-testing, I (as Germans) was not even given a choice about avoiding night combat. Is that based on the parameters or random odds?

BTW, "Gemmano" (assault on Italian hill-town) has been a fun Op so far (just starting battle #4).

Thanks in advance,

Ken

[Thin Red Line]

Originally posted by kenfedoroff:

If the German chooses to avoid night combat, is he successful 100% of the time? -or-

Is there some random odds that come into play?

Fro my experience, no. In Beginning of the End i tried to avoid a night combat for my SS troops and it didn't work.

[Hensworth]

From what I recall there is a setting in the scenario editor which decides who may initiate night combat.

It's rather confusing that this is a positive choice while in the game it becomes a negative one.

I've always assumed that, when both sides are allowed to initiate night combat, it is only skipped when both sides decide to do so. If one side decides not to skip it, night combat takes place.

If your side is not allowed to initiate night combat then your choice becomes irrelevant and it is completely decided by the choice your opponent makes.

So it may have been that the Allies in Gemmano did not have the possibility of initiating night combat, while you as the Germans did. Since you decided to skip it, it was.

So the 'attempt' does not point to the fact that there is only a certain chance of success, but to the fact that your choice may be of no consequence.

[Emar]

Sgt. kelly is exactly right. The choice for whether one side, both or neither is decided by the designer. In the case of Gemmano and other Gebirgs ops I tried to base that decision on my historical resources.

By late 1944 on the western front the Allies ruled the skies so the Germans became masters at nightime advancement and they were more willing than the Allies to take the inherent risks that nightime movement and combat posed. The Allies on the other hand prefered to work under the umbrella of air and artillery support during the daylight hours whenever possible.

At Gemmano the Germans brought up reinforcements on a nightly basis for the entire campaign there (my op only represents the first 2 days of a prolonged attempt to capture the Gemmano heights which only succeeded after an entire Indian division was put in over 2 weeks later), while the British tried desperately to consolidate and hold whatever gains they had made during daylight hours throughout the night.

As a designer this is a tough decision as it forces an all or nothing choice. Perhaps your suggestion of a percentage chance chosen by scenario designers might be a better choice.

Let me know how the op plays out. From previous feedback I am considering tweaking the force balance a little more in favor of the British attacker (maybe one more platoon of infantry).

[kenfedoroff]

Originally posted by Sgt_Kelly:

...So the 'attempt' does not point to the fact that there is only a certain chance of success, but to the fact that your choice may be of no consequence.

Ahh... Okay, that would explain it. Thanks.

It's been a fun Op for me, but I'm the Germans dug-in on the hill, rolling my hand grenades down the slopes into the British foxholes.

My opponent is relentless, and made me pay for my mistakes. In the second battle I had 2 complete HMG teams wiped out, plus most of a platoon, because I placed them too far forward with no chance for escape, once they were flanked. *Sighs, as a tear rolls down his cheek.*

What a meat grinder this is.

Ken

[Emar]

Yeah, the real event was a meat grinder as well with 8th army taking a real bloody nose attempting to take the hill ( many soldiers who had also been at Cassino described the struggle for Gemmano as being much worse).

The 100th Gebirgs, survivors of the Greek campaign, Crete, and the Russian front near Leningrad, took so many casualties that they pretty much ceased to be a unit after this fight as well

On a side note this battle so impressed future historian James Lucas (often quoted in the CM rule book)with the fighting abilities of the Gebirgs that he called them the most skilled soldiers he had ever faced. ( Lucas assaulted Gemmano with the 169th Queens brigade days after 44th Recce was pushed off the hill. His unit fared no better)

[handihoc]

Having played this op and loved it, I agree with you, Emar, about adding a few more infantry to the Brit force. The road is a tank trap. In my experience, by battle three the Brits just don't have quite enough infantry to allow them to open or 'clear' a way for the tanks into the village area. I reached a point in battle three where I had no choice but to push my tanks forward with virtually no infantry support. The Gebirgs, with their inf-at weapons and concealment capacity, did a magnificent job of sitting tight and cooking them at their leisure as they passed.

Wonderful op, though.

[BigMik1]

Originally posted by kenfedoroff:

It's been a fun Op for me, but I'm the Germans dug-in on the hill, rolling my hand grenades down the slopes into the British foxholes.

My opponent is relentless, and made me pay for my mistakes. In the second battle I had 2 complete HMG teams wiped out, plus most of a platoon, because I placed them too far forward with no chance for escape, once they were flanked. *Sighs, as a tear rolls down his cheek.*

What a meat grinder this is.

Ken

Ahhh, my honored opponent Ken, thanks for your words, but your defence is quite impressive also. I have tried every kind of flanking move and you counter it with units popping up out of foxholes all over the place. Now in turn #4 your forces are too strong as my poor British troops see their goal just a few yards away and can't move without getting shot at.

As to Emar, your op is a challenge for the Allied side and I fully accept it and I like it, but you could give the Allied player that air and artillery support that they are suppose to have. Plus those additional troops.

BigMik1