Using TDs

[jBrereton]

Originally posted by Rankorian:

[QB] The shoot and scoot point is a good one. For those of you who can make that technique work, I tip my hat to you.

With a bit of practise, it's not too hard to do, to be honest.

I can't imagine that hauling infanty/MGs is usually a good tactic for a TD. On typical CM maps--which are more 2 x 2 km than 20 x 20-open-top TDs would be vulnerable to being popped by AT, HE chuckers, and even heavy HMGs from over a kilometer away.

A Hellcat can move at, iirc, 55mp/h on roads. That's a tremendously useful ability.

If you take a couple of HMGs on the back of each, a platoon of four Hellcats can create an astonishingly useful firebase, and they're also excellent for redeployment.

Yes, they are rather vulnerable to actual fire, but at high speeds, that vulnerability is reduced a great deal.

Am I mistaken, or does the tacAI seem to favor targeting Firefly/Hellcats/Woverines?

No idea. It probably does, because they're tremendously useful. It wouldn't surprise me a bit.

[birdstrike]

Just to reiterate and further underline what JasonC said:

Even for a mediocre tactician as myself and without advanced shoot-and-scoot tactics, TDs are indispensable. (Personally, I LOVE the M10! ) Their main purpose is denying the enemy freedom of movement with his tanks - something a Sherman is often not capable of.

And as with most allied units, their main strength is numbers. For QBs I use about 1 TD platoon for every 1-2 tank platoons (or in small engagements 1 TD for 2-3 tanks).

As has been said before, stalking and taking out individual enemy tanks by baiting and flanking them is the most effective tactic, but due to lack of cover (and because of my own impatience) I find myself using them often much more offensively. I either keep them in second line behind my Shermans and employ them as need arises, or scatter them among my advancing tanks for mutual support:

if there's an AT gun opening fire, I have my Shermans deal with it. If a tank pops up, my M10s will do the job. (Okay, often it doesn't work out that well... cough).

When reaching a good overwatch position I have the TDs halt and cover the advance of the rest of my troops. Generally I avoid moving up TDs too close to the enemy positions, for known reasons, but time and again they are useful to overrun guns.

Infantry, mortars and and light guns are in fact their worst enemies, because they are hard to spot and effective supression fire is thus not possible. (but then again, it's the infantry's job, to find and clear those.)

In a tank duel I prefer them over any 'real' tank, because their shots can really hurt and even if their armor would be 30mm thicker, it doesn't matter when being hit by an 88.

Am I mistaken, or does the tacAI seem to favor targeting Firefly/Hellcats/Woverines?

The AI targets the biggest threat first, which for tanks usually is what can hurt them most. So the answer is no, you're not mistaken, yes, they do indeed target Firefly/Hellcats/Woverines first.

[The_Enigma]

Jagpanther: Dont be scared of these things if you have something faster then a Churchill and with something like a 75mm gun

Whereas there nigh on impossible lol to kill from the front, an opponent made it perfectly clear he could still kill these when he took 2 out of 4 of them with flanking fire!

In one case he ran a Sherman down my flank, it blazing away at me tank. Made me Jagpanther a right off. (think the other fell to a zook! ... afterwards i made sure only the front was pointing in his direction lol)

Luckily a 75mm armed HT stopped his fun

But.....the desert, and the open steppes, can make this difficult, because infantry is so incredibly vulnerable. I find those environments very difficult--probably because my armor tactics are not as well developed. (ie--hunting to find hull-down points, gauging what distance to engage at depending on relative armor types, and at what speed)

Much to learn

vulnerable? There is cover everywhere!

ITs not like in the countryside where your looking for trees or the odd house, or in the city and urban combat.

Here your looking for Brush, some rough ground, more brush, sometimes rocky ground ... better then nothing, did i mention brush? everything you usally think is too open in "Italy" is much needed cover in the desert!

In my exp, i have moved large chunks of my infantry forces through Brush etc without taking heavy casulties etc

As for tank combat, again there is always cover

Just got to get down to eye level ... that small rise ... the one you could golly over if it was real ... thats a hull down position which will save your ass ... get over there

No need to use the seek hull down command, eye view and find it yourself !

Of corse ... if you only have a 2 pounder in that tank of yours, there is no hull down positions .... well its time to CCCCHHHARGE!!!!!!!!

Never works like but hey its good fun!

[Aco4bn187inf]

A rambling note on using the German TD's with good front armor and thin sides-

These are awesome weapons if they keep to their specialized role. (Hetzer, PzIV/70, Jagdpanther.) That means don't go out where you can be flanked. Don't drive past any terrain that hasn't been cleared. Fight at long range. Cover your flanks with buildings, hills, etc. Take time to get into good position. That's how they did it in real life, I believe.

I'm learning that a benefit of playing larger battles is that specialized units like these aren't forced to do a job they're not suited for. You're not tempted to assault into a village with your Hetzer, because you've got better units for that. The result is that they can be pretty darn survivable.

Incidentally, overwatch is a dicey concept if the terrain is built up at all. It can be more like a cat and mouse game of LOS. Withdraw and reappear in a different, surprising spot.

This is working well in my current game. My opponent, after losing a tank, is now hiding his numerous Sherman 75's and 105's behind houses instead of pounding my poor bloody infantry with them. He brought up a Sherman 76 to oppose my TD's, but it reversed and targeted smoke as soon as it caught sight of one! I loved that! Probably misidentified my PzIV70 as a Jagdpanther, or maybe even not.

And his wide-flanking wild-ass unescorted bazooka team is about to walk straight into a German patrol. I love this game.

Now I'll use my Semovente 105's to take down some of those houses while the clock ticks down for the Nebelwerfer barrage to come in: it's all about teamwork.

(Incidentally, of all the Axis 105mm vehicles, the Semovente carries the most ammo, and more HE = more fun!)