assaults across steppes

[AzNtoccata]

This is a common situation that's presented in a lot of scenarios. I usually play as attacker, with superior numbers of AFVs, infantry, and some arty assaulting across a large open ground against an enemy that's entrenched or behind cover.

What usually happens is that I attack first with the AFVs and successful in eliminating all the enemy AT assets, leaving my AFVs free to mess up the enemy infantry. However, when i order my men to attack across the field, usually they got pinned down and unable to advance. This happens even when i have a large number of HMGs and AFVs providing covering fire. What usually happens is that I think I have all the enemy pinned down, but when they see my advancing infantry they take potshots at them, making my infantry want to try and sneak or run back to the rally point.

The expanses are usually 500m or more, leaving short 40-50m hops using advance taking a long time. Halftracks don't work well, b/c there are still ATGs around to mess them up (tho they can't do anything about the tanks). Smoke lasts too short, and arty also provides only a short period of reprieve.

Suggestions?

[JasonC]

You use short advances staying spread, and whenever the men are fired on, you blow up the guys that did it. No problem. Is is fast? No, you make 50m a minute average until the firing slacks off. It is enough, just keep it up. Units getting nervous stop and rally, the rest keep going. No outnumbered defender has enough firepower to permanently stop infantry at long range, while under fire himself from the attacker's heavy weapons. They will run out of shooters, or of ammo, long before you run out of rally. It isn't a race, it is an endurance thing.

[stoat]

Look at it another way. When they stick their heads up to fire on your infantry, they are exposing themselves to the AFVs. Take your time and use these weapons to destroy the enemy infantry position by position.

[roqf77]

And artillery never forget artillery! thats the one thing jason c always leaves out!(no dig just kidding ate)

[womble]

Hi

I've read JasonC's doctrine to advancing infantry under fire, and I believe everyone's testimony when they say it works. I'm just having a little difficulty, specifically with that last 50-100m or so.

The scenario is "Cemetery hill", for those who would like to stop now and avoid spoilers...

<<<Spoiler gap...

...spoiler gap ends>>>

I've decided to take the right hand end of the trench line, by the roadblock, since that seems to be the closest to cover (ca 40-110m), and potentially easiest to isolate (though my IG seems to be too busy chucking HE at harrassing fires to bother lobbing smoke to cut one angle of sight - this isn't the core of the issue). I'm not particularly concerned whether it's the best approach to the scenario as a whole, since it's turned into a training exercise in attacking across open ground now, for me.

I have 3 x 222 scout cars and a 37mm 1/2track, as well as an IG75, 2 HMGs and the Recon company's 50mm mortars.

I have a pioneer platoon (6 squads, 3 w LMG, 3 SMG-heavy) and a Recon platoon (3 std squads apiece) snugged into the edge of the woods apart from one of the 2 recon platoons (1/4 of my infantry strength) which is trying to sneak round the flank.

Opposing the rush are an "Machine Gun?" and two "Infantry Squad?"s which I've been pasting with heavy weapons and small arms fire until the Recon squads are down to less than 10 'shots' left. Supporting from an enfilading position at the extreme end of the trench line are another "squad?" and "MG?". I've KOed the light gun dug in behind the line, using mortars. When I start the rush another fire source opens up from the large building behid the trench line, and two more squads in the trench and one behind it open up.

So far not one squad has made it to the trench line. I've tried rushing with just the three pioneer squads and everyone else supporting. I've tried rushing with all the infantry squads and rushing with the three close pioneer squads and the three recon squads. Any half squads just seem to evaporate. I don't see any significant suppression of the assets in the trench and no sign of suppression at all on the more distant hostile fires. Even using flamethrowers to draw fire off the important assaulting squads hasn't helped. Using 9 squads to assault worked best so far. Of those, 3 were pinned within 15-20m of the trenchline, 3 were pinned within 10m of the start line, 1 was eliminated, 1 broken and 1 remained active after the 1st minute. Most were down to 6 or fewer men and only one had 8 left. This was not sufficient to suppress the trench line and allow the wavering troops to rally (all troops are in command; some of the commanders have morale and command bonuses).

Unless there're enemy weapons bearing of which I am unaware, I think I have about 2:1 firepower superiority: 9 squads against 4; 2 HMG vs 2; IG and 37mm vs 1 remaining "Gun?" (which I think is an ATR, since the 1/2track survived a hit); 2 50mm mortars and 3 20mm/coax combos unanswered.

What am I doing wrong, or should I expect to fail in this assault?

[Aco4bn187inf]

There was a thread a long time ago about Cemetery Hill. People were complaining about how hard it is. It's a very good defensive position as I remember, so don't feel too bad. You may have to play it a few times, trying to put more weight against a different sector each time.

I lost the first time I played it, can't remember if I ever won it.

[womble]

Next variation is to abandon the sneaky outflanking maneuver and add a whole additional platoon to the assault.

Thanks for the encouragement.

[JasonC]

That scenario is an attack with 1 to 2 odds. It is simply a test of how stupid the AI can be in a fixed position. It has nothing to do with how you attack in general. A human defender cannot lose that scenario.

[eyepilot]

That scenario is a ball buster , a BALL BUSTER!

run.

[womble]

Hah ha har!

No *wonder* I'm finding it hard! [chortle] ISTR that the notes say it's meant for 2-player TCPIP playing... [marvels]

So, if I can get into the trench I'm doing okay... Good.

[Loeffe]

When I played Cemetary Hill (vs. AI) for the first time, two weeks ago, I did a complete right flank with most of the inf, while supporting them from the edge of the forrest with HMG and the 75mm. I used my armored vehicles for a left-flank attempt, but most got chewed up by the Russian ATG.

However, the right-flanking worked a charm. Once you get in line with the trenches, and can still fire with your support from the edge of the forrest you can really start to supress the troops in the trenches. Move further behind the trenches, and soon all the russians will be fleeing. Maybe I was just lucky, but it was a total victory for me.

[JasonC]

The stupid AI trick involved in winning that scenario is to induce the Russians to leave their cover, for whatever reason. If you can do so, your firepower is sufficient to kill the defenders. If they simply remain in their positions, you can fire every round of every weapon you have and only muss their hair. It is winnable only against the AI, and only by exploiting its stupidity about leaving strong positions for weak ones.

[Hermitage]

So, we're all in agreement, then. The AI is a brilliant simulation of Soviet command and control capability ca. 1941. Hats off to the game designers!

[AzNtoccata]

the next phase of the assault usually involves search and destroying. I've taken out the enemy's heavy weaponary, pinned most of his infantry, now I just need to find the isolated positions and destroy them.

At this point i should be able to move my attack quicker. Advance is too slow (esp since enemy fire died down) but move makes the infantry too vulnerable to random potshots. Suggestions?

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Give them move to contact orders, but place a covered arc on each moving unit. They will only react to contact within the covered arc. That way they won't all stop from sighting some random unit thats too far away to do much harm, but they will stop and fire back at enemy units that are within the arc, ie, close enough to hurt them.

[AzNtoccata]

One example of such an battle is Sword of Bagration SP. My infantry advance is way too slow. I find my tanks racing ahead, only to get blown up by tank hunters while the infantry is still slowly prodding ahead.

Tank riders do not work, usually it turns into a disorganized mess because they get shot off the tanks and take forever to rally. The Germans have it a bit better with SPW, but AT rifles are also a major annoynace.