The Demo Revisited: A modest proposal for BTS

[CombinedArms]

We devoted CMBB fans are frequently asked by potential purchasers of the game why the demo is so uninspiring, given the great reviews they've read of the game. Witness, for example, this recent thread.

This leads forum members to have to say, repeatedly, that it really IS a great game and that potential buyers shouldn't give up on it just because the demo games are tactically uninteresting, as for example in this comment from that thread:

Firstly welcome to the fold. You will be assimilated shortly....

Secondly the CMBB demo blows chunks and is not a fair representation of the full game. Battlefront were under great pressure from folks like us to show off the changes that they had instigated between the original CMBO and CMBB. The demo shows these changes but does not (IMHO) give a good intro into the concept of the game as a whole.

If I were you I would go and download the CMBO demo and play that all night..... and all day, and all the next night too.

I would suggest that by now the initial need to alert veteran CMBO players to the CMBB features has been met. The main target from now on is new players, and I would also suggest that it's a bit sad that we have to direct potential players to the CMBO demos--which were great!-- to get a sense of the potential of CMBB.

So, here's my modest proposal (remembering that Steve once said that the present CMBB demos would never be removed): Why not ADD just one exciting-to-play scenario to the current package. Such a scenario should, in my view, meet the following criteria: 1) offer a good game vs. the AI from either side; 2) offer interesting tactical challenges; 3) be replayable; 4) give a good idea of the character and gaming potential of CMBB. I would suggest that by now there must be dozens of scenarios out there that would meet these criteria. Such an addition would just expand the demo package's size by about 25K--and would greatly enhance its appeal to those who download the demo.

And it would save us loyal CMBB players from having to make excuses for the demo while perhaps attracting a few more players to the game who otherwise might not get hooked. It's the ones who try the demo and give up without coming to the forum that most concern me.

Just my two cents.

[MikeyD]

I seem to recall CMBO's demo got an extra scenario added at some point after the initial release. Of course that initial release demo went through a MAJOR overhaul, something that'll never happen to the CMBB demo.

One thing prospective CMBB buyers can do that they couldn't when CMBO came out is surf the many different websites. If they're concerned about map size they can surf over to the Scenario depot and view the screensots of scenario maps.

As BFC's a small shop I'd vote for them continuing to work on v1.03 or the rewrite or whatever they're working, on and leave it to the forum members to convince any prospective buyers.

[ March 26, 2003, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ]

[Guest PondScum]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:

Such an addition would just expand the demo package's size by about 25K--and would greatly enhance its appeal to those who download the demo.

The demo is not just the 1.00 binary plus a couple of scenarios: BTS also cut models and textures out of it to reduce the size. Adding a new scenario therefore requires adding the appropriate models and textures back in. So while I agree that a demo with wider "audience appeal" would be a good thing, I'm not underestimating that the effort it would require. BTS may have made the judgement call that sales are quite healthy enough without a revised demo. They might consider revisiting the concept in a few months though, when sales start to lag a bit

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by PondScum:

The demo is not just the 1.00 binary plus a couple of scenarios: BTS also cut models and textures out of it to reduce the size. Adding a new scenario therefore requires adding the appropriate models and textures back in. So while I agree that a demo with wider "audience appeal" would be a good thing, I'm not underestimating that the effort it would require. BTS may have made the judgement call that sales are quite healthy enough without a revised demo. They might consider revisiting the concept in a few months though, when sales start to lag a bit

Thanks for the info. This would certainly explain the reluctance on the part of BTS to alter the demos.

[ March 26, 2003, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[markl]

As a new person to the game I must add I purchased CMBB on the strength of the forum. I thought since most of the posts seemed to come from people who could afford to pay for the game there must be a lot more to it.

The demo is hardly the same game. If I had to make my decision based on the demo I would still be playing one of my children’s games.

I just hope the next version has a better demo or they must surly loose sales.

[Maj Soshtokovich]

Well Jagmiester comes immediatly to mind (esp as the Soviets). It might put people off for being too hard but it will give them something to interest there sorry civilian lives LOL

Eric

[Jarmo]

A new demo would be a good thing.

Maybe using the 1.03 engine once it's finished?

By now there should be quite a few great scenarios

to choose from. I considered the demo scenarios

downright dull.

No matter what kind of picture BFC wants to paint

of the CM experience, no matter if it's a cliche,

but a demo aint great without buildings and a Tiger!!

This game will be selling for a few more years, so

the invested time wouldnt go to waste...

[Battlefront.com]

I really can't comment more on this topic than has already been stated many times in the past. Fortunately, our sales data does not indicate that the Demo for CMBB harmed its sales, which is often a point people claim is true.

We have no plans to revisit the third scenario request. We have too many other things on our plate. Obviously if we felt it was necessary we would do so, but we probably would have done so 5-7 months ago.

Steve

[Wako]

Not that this will make you change your mind or anything, but while I own CMBO (and have since it came out), I have not bothered to buy CMBB because the demo frankly sucks.

The demo did not show me enough changes from CMBO to bother buying CMBB. None of the scenarios in the CMBB demo are very fun. Nothing like the Valley of Death scenario in the CMBO demo.

Surely BTS could hand off demo prep to some of the beta testers and get them to pick a good scenario to add to the demo that would actually BE FUN and SHOW what the game is capable of instead of what the current demo scenarios show. Heck, you could delete that crappy German tanks roll over Soviet anti-tank guns scenerio altogether. As far as I can tell it is completely impossible to win that as the Sovs...

I may eventually buy CMBB anyway, but I've been saying that for many months now. Everytime I think about it, I think back to the demo and say "Naw, I'm sure I can find something funner to buy"... and then I do.

Just my two cents.

[Gpig]

Ok, Wako . . . that's just plain silly.

"I'm sure I can think of somthing more fun to buy - and then I do."

HA! What could be MORE fun than CMBB!?!?

I think you are just being a bit to "stiff" in your unyielding opinion about the demo.

Almost everybody has gone ON and ON about how much the full game plainly ROCKS (despite the Demo). Don't you trust ANYONE?

Not trying to be abusive, I just think that you will be so pleasantly surprised once you've got the game. (That is if you truly adored CMBO.)

Gpig

[Hensworth]

We've made a suggestion to BTS.

They feel it's not worth the trouble.

End of story as far as I'm concerned.

[-Havermeyer-]

People. People. People. What you don't understand is, Steve tapped out BTS's response while knocking back a bottle of Dom, in the hot tube while watching his Palm Pilot bank account ticker roll over.

[moneymaxx]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Fortunately, our sales data does not indicate that the Demo for CMBB harmed its sales, which is often a point people claim is true.

I'm happy that your sales figures seem to be satisfying . But maybe you could have sold even more.

I'm speaking from a German perspective here. I don't know how I came across the CMBO demo, but at that time CMBO wasn't distributed by CDV. I just loved it, played it again and again, with both sides, different experience settings, bonus for the AI,extra troops.... Well, I even considered asking someone for his credit card number to buy it in the US. What a day when I found the American version on Ebay. I'm still playing CMBO today.

But would I've bought it with a demo the quality of the CMBB demo (which is "unterirdisch" = crap)? Certainly not. It doesn't help that CMBO and CMBB get very low ratings (considering it's quality) in the most common German PC games magazines (around 70%) either, claiming that both games are hard to play, only for specialists with a difficult to understand UI..... and so on and so on.

The only way to verify if this is true or wrong is to download the demo. Given the fact, that CMBO was launched quite late in Germany, I'm assuming that it didn't have such a big fan base as in America. People who don't KNOW CMBO, thus new to the CM series, will find the CMBB demo boring and will think that the low ratings are justified. Therefore they'll not buy it. What is the use of a demo showing ONLY the new features of CMBB, when A LOT of people don't even know CMBO. Adding to this, I'd like to say, that I hardly ever buy a game without downloading the demo first.

Therefore, IMHO, you can't say that it didn't hurt your sales, you just reached a statisfactory level of sales or even more, based on the assumption you had before the release of CMBB. If you COULD have sold even more with a better demo, nobody can tell with certainty, but I'm quite convinced that sales would have been even more spectacular.

I understand, that you can't change the demo now. But I hope that in some years with the release of the next CM product the demo quality will be better. Just remember this easy to remember sequence: Better demo --> More sales --> New Ferraris for all people working for BTS (Lear-Jets for Steve and Charles) --> More money for the development of CM '95 '98 and CM XP --> More happy wargamers around the world .

[ March 27, 2003, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: moneymaxx ]