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Shell flight path computation bug (severe)


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I've noticed a reproducible bug in v1.02 that has a serious impact on nearly all battles.

CMBB US v1.02, Windows98

If there is a rise of terrain near a target along the LOS, guns and tanks from a lower position than the target, but with clear LOS to the target, always hit the slope terrain (where the height changes) in front of the target.

The shells don't clear the rise

This happens even if height differences are only subtle and it happens with area fire too (you can't even hit a house, if it is on a hill in this situation).

Small arms fire works normal in this situation.

I tested the exact(!) same game save with v. 1.01 and v1.02.

This bug only happens in v1.02; in v1.01 the shells flight path is normal and the target is hit.

As this bug is severe, I have re-installed v 1.01

I can email the game save that shows the bug, if needed.

I hope that this will be fixed, as most maps are not flat billiard tables :)

If this bug has already been reported, sorry....

Tankist

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Originally posted by Kirill S.:

this bug is well known. it was supposed to be a fix from the 1.01 bug, but it has only become worse... it made me stop playing cmbb :(

Well, that's very silly of you. Read the last page of the thread linked to above and you'll see an in-game workaround - targetting the top of the hill.
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I just recently had this problem with a scenario I was playing. There were a set of enemy trenches layed out just behind a very minor rise that flattened out into basically an open field. Units in the trenches could see out just fine but my tanks sitting in the field in front of the rise had LOS to the infantry in the trenches but when they tried to engage them they simply ended up drawing long lines of craters directly towards the enemy about 10m ahead of the trench just before the dip to the trench started.

It's almost as if the tank does have LOS but the maingun is 'blocked' from being able to land a shell on the target. Somewhat similar to the 'bow MG blocked' situation when hull down. I suppose such a scenario could be true but it definately sounds like it's a bit too common ofan occurance. In addition I don't think I'm 'hull down' even to these targets according to the game so that type of LOS issue should be void.

[ March 13, 2003, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: Cyber ]

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Originally posted by Soddball:

Read the last page of the thread linked to above and you'll see an in-game workaround - targetting the top of the hill.

What is the workaround if the rise is 30+ meters away from the target? As for as I can tell the answer is

</font>

  • Get higher.</font>
  • Move so the rise is not in the way.</font>
  • Hide.</font>
  • Use MG only.</font>

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For those new to this issue, I've taken the liberty of re-posting--out of context--one of several responses by Steve (see the "un-hittable gun" post) that will probably sum up for you the fact that this problem is likely to be addressed in the future by the folks at Battlefront.

posted March 05, 2003 11:50 PM                         

"Folks, when we find a bug and confirm it we leave absolutely NO DOUBT in anybody's mind about it. We also explicitely state if the bug will be addressed or not. And if we do not think it is a bug, or are not sure, we say so straight out. If you find yourself splitting hairs and reading tealeaves to determine if what we said confirms a bug, then the answer should be obvious... someone is misreading our comments.

Now that that's out of the way, let's look at this new bug that I have not even heard about until now

There appears to be three hit issues that have been raised on this BBS. Here they are and where we stand on each:

1. Shots hitting ground when shooter is Hull Down - this was understood to be a bug going all the way back into CMBO, but was not apparent until CMBB 1.0 (and wasn't even seriously seen until 1.01 for some reason). This was absolutely a bug and was fixed for 1.02.

2. Shots walking to target one right after the other in a straight line - looks like something is wrong, but Charles has not looked into it yet and therefore it is not confirmed as a bug. If it turns out to be a bug Charles will try and fix it.

3. Shots impacting at base of a small hill and not hitting some types of targets (i.e. guns) when using more or less flat trajectory fire - my hunch is that this is a bug, but since I only passed the info onto Charles 5 minutes ago I don't have confirmation yet at this point. If it turns out to be a bug Charles will try and fix it.

Is this clear enough are people going to find a 4th situation and say that I confirmed it is a bug before I ever heard of it? "

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Firing at a target and hitting the ridge in front is not exactly unknown in real-world tank battles. But it's expending all your ammo firing and firing without making that one mil vertical adjustment that gets on my nerves.

[ March 13, 2003, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ]

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I had one silly situation, where my regular Tiger was unable to hit for 2 full turns (some 8 shots i think) from 600 meter range, completely exposed t34, while the t34 laid hits on me even when full reverse. The hit % was some 50 when i checked on both plotting pauses. Maybe it has something to do with this bug, the misses were so hilarious, that it was past frustration. I think i have the videos still around.

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FWIW and at the risk of repeating myself, if you want action then send in the turn files to BFC. Talking about it on the forum by itself isn't the most effective way of getting BFC's attention, so every time you see a tank constantly spudding HE rounds into the floor send in the file. Numbers count, I've sent them in, and this is a bug.

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Folks, Charles confirmed this as an AI targeting problem. For some reason, like the hits in front of the vehicle, this problem has ALWAYS been in CM since way back when. But for whatever reason, the fix to the afore mentioned bug made it far more noticable. Charles has made a fix for this and we will start internal testing sometime early next week. With any luck this problem will be fixed without ill side effects.

Steve

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Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Folks, Charles confirmed this as an AI targeting problem. For some reason, like the hits in front of the vehicle, this problem has ALWAYS been in CM since way back when. But for whatever reason, the fix to the afore mentioned bug made it far more noticable. Charles has made a fix for this and we will start internal testing sometime early next week. With any luck this problem will be fixed without ill side effects.

Steve

Thanks for the update! I'm glad to hear that there will be a fix implemented.

BFC's commitment to making a great game better always impresses me.

Cheers,

YD

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Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Folks, Charles confirmed this as an AI targeting problem. For some reason, like the hits in front of the vehicle, this problem has ALWAYS been in CM since way back when. But for whatever reason, the fix to the afore mentioned bug made it far more noticable. {my emphasis} <BIG> Charles has made a fix for this and we will start internal testing sometime early next week. With any luck this problem will be fixed without ill side effects.<SMALL>

Steve

Only one word, Steve ...

<BIG>W00t!!!!<SMALL>

AJ

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Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Folks, Charles confirmed this as an AI targeting problem. For some reason, like the hits in front of the vehicle, this problem has ALWAYS been in CM since way back when. But for whatever reason, the fix to the afore mentioned bug made it far more noticable. Charles has made a fix for this and we will start internal testing sometime early next week. With any luck this problem will be fixed without ill side effects.

Steve

Now now, isn't it this very reason why we support a couple of guys and their "sidekicks" to bring us such delight in warfare and then correct bugs in software if there are any to be found?

BRAVO!!

You have my dollar/wine for the next 50 years of game development.

Sincerely,

Charl Theron

header_Winelands02.gif

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

</font>

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Originally posted by Cyber:

I just recently had this problem with a scenario I was playing. There were a set of enemy trenches layed out just behind a very minor rise that flattened out into basically an open field. Units in the trenches could see out just fine but my tanks sitting in the field in front of the rise had LOS to the infantry in the trenches but when they tried to engage them they simply ended up drawing long lines of craters directly towards the enemy about 10m ahead of the trench just before the dip to the trench started.

It's almost as if the tank does have LOS but the maingun is 'blocked' from being able to land a shell on the target. Somewhat similar to the 'bow MG blocked' situation when hull down. I suppose such a scenario could be true but it definately sounds like it's a bit too common ofan occurance. In addition I don't think I'm 'hull down' even to these targets according to the game so that type of LOS issue should be void.

Ahem!

I heard that.

:D

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Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Folks, Charles confirmed this as an AI targeting problem. For some reason, like the hits in front of the vehicle, this problem has ALWAYS been in CM since way back when. But for whatever reason, the fix to the afore mentioned bug made it far more noticable. Charles has made a fix for this and we will start internal testing sometime early next week. With any luck this problem will be fixed without ill side effects.

Steve

These guys are so cool they make me want to wail on my guitar, flip out, and kick MasterGoodale in the face!! And by cool I mean totally sweet!! :D:D
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Many, many thanks to Steve, Charles, Matt and the rest of the gang at BF for taking time away from your other projects to revisit this one.

Not only does your game deserve high praise, but your responsiveness and commitment to us as well. Thank you!

[ March 14, 2003, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: PlattCmdr ]

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