wadepm Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I had a 150 IG set up covering a road with an armor covered arc. The road wass about 150 m away and running at a right angle to my line of sight. A T-34 came tearing down the road and the IG picked it off after traversing about 15-20 degrees. My question is - was this possible in RL? Did this gun have ability to traverse at all, much less follow a moving target and hit it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Maybe the crew picked up the trail and moved the whole gun?? The traverse was 11 1/2 degrees, and why not? 150m isn't "picking off" somethign with that bloody great HE shell - it's raming it straight down it's throat .......or into any other part of the anatomy you choose to use for a metaphor! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 v.Senger & Etterlin gives it a side traverse of 11°, no idea if that is to each side or total. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishu Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Maybe they don't follow, but rotates the gun to point towards road ahead of the T34's path and then at the right moment, they shoot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadepm Posted April 28, 2003 Author Share Posted April 28, 2003 Andreas, thanks for the info. So we know that it can traverse, atleast a little bit, then the important question becomes: does it have the sights, etc. to allow it to hit a moving target. I think not, what does your source say about that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 The gun was definitely designed to work in DF mode. I don't know what kind of special sights you need to hit a moving tank (it's not a helicopter or a jet, after all). Ordinary ATGs also did not have special sights for moving targets, AFAIK. You just lead it a bit (Vorhalten in German I think). I think tracking a target for multiple shots would be difficult, since the gun weighs in at just short of 1,800kg, so just moving it around would be a problem. Difficult to say without seeing the situation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishu Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Andreas, You don't have to move the gun to traverse it ;P It's on 2 wheels and prolly balanced out so that you can quite easily lift the legs from the ground and traverse it. Of course assuming you havent deployed it a bad place where the wheels couldn't roll without much hassle. I don't believe theres any problem traversing ~1800kg gun on the grass. Suppose it'd be pretty much like turning a trailer with man power. Although I'd suppose it's easier, since the gun might be better balanced around the axis than a trailer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadepm Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 From the AT guns I have seen up close the gunner can work the traverse and the trigger while looking through the sight. I think with the IG you fire it with a lanyard like a "normal" howitzer? That has got to make it VERY difficult to hit a moving tank. Remember, in the situation I described the tank was going full speed on a dirt road at a range of 150 meters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Originally posted by wadepm: Remember, in the situation I described the tank was going full speed on a dirt road at a range of 150 meters. Just for grins, if the T-34 was moving at its maximum possible top speed (34mph), the tank would have moved 9 meters in the time the shot is fired before impact (about 0.6 seconds). I'm curious have CMBB's Fast Move corresponds to a vehicle's top speed. Maybe its in the Strategy Guide I keep hearing about (that I bought about three months ago). Aaron 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 What are we talking about, traversing the gun or the gun carriage? As you describe it, it would seem to me to be bloody unlikely to do this, but not impossible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Originally posted by Tweety: What are we talking about, traversing the gun or the gun carriage? As you describe it, it would seem to me to be bloody unlikely to do this, but not impossible. Unfortunately, CMBB doesn't model gun traverse. At least it doesn't appear to. I did a test case with 6 T-34 Fast Moving left to right down a paved road perpendicular to a 150 IG at 150 meters. When the IG spotted the tank, it started to travers left towards the tank. However, once it got there, the tank would pass from left to right and the IG would then start traversing to the right. The tanks was out of the field of view before the IG took a shot. The animation of the travers was of the entire carriage traversing, not the gun. The gun -did not- travers within the carriage at all. Note that if the IG has just held it original aim, it could have easily gotten off a shot as the tanks passed by but, instead, all 6 tanks passed by without a single shot being fired. I then sent the tanks back across, this time on the very dry open ground. Here the T-34s were slow enough and the IG was able to take a shot at each of them. It hit slightly more then 50% of the time (the HC with its improved velocity was slightly more accurate.) The simulation as is favors the T-34 in this situation due to the auto-track traversing. Aaron 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Well, there are two seperate issues here: 1) towed guns have no traverse inside their carriage modeled. They always rotate with the same speed, no matter for how much of an angle, whereas a quick aim inside the carriage would be faster in reality. Note that SP guns without turret do model traverse within limits, although I think all SP guns have the same maximal traverse in CM 2) the TacAI is not capable of realising which of multiple targets would be best to get considering its turn rate. The TacAI always sees one target at a time. [ April 29, 2003, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: redwolf ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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