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German rifle grenades?


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Does the game differentiate between the different models? Or is it one 'generic' type?

None of them seem very effective. Admittedly the early Gross & Klein Gew Pz.Gr are pretty puny devices with only about 40mm of penetration (presumably the Gross Gew Pz.Gr has the better behind armour effect.)

But the later Gew Pz.Gr 46mm with 90mm penetration and the SS Gew Pz.Gr 61mm with 125mm penetration should be somewhat chunkier.

I've obviously got too much time on my hands lately! :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

Beside that the german AT Rifle grenades are available 1 year early (1941 instead of 1942) and handled like an automatic grenade launcher (rate of fire!), I´d say that just the standard 30 type rifle grenade is modelled. At least my testing in CMBB revealed this. T34/41 side armor wasn´t fully penetrated, while M4A2 (lend lease) was, indicating a penetration of at least ~40mm vertical armor. The vertical side hull armor of a KV1 (75mm) and KV1S (60mm) wasn´t penetrated in any way.

CMAK: Sherman Side hull armor can be penetrated, while Churchill side armor can not, indicating same overall penetration ability of about 40-50mm at best.

What sort of HEAT grenade is modelled here actually? AFAIK the first version 30 HEAT Rifle grenade could penetrate maybe 20-30mm at best, while the later (late 42 introduced) "Grosse" (="Large" warhead) version could penetrate about 70-80mm!? Only the GGP40 could penetrate about 40-45mm, but this was distributed to Luftwaffe units only. Interestingly this was already available in 1940/41. Looks like BFC made some compromise here, means there´s only one generic version available (GGP40) for all war years and for all infantry unit types. That surely has been discussed and discovered earlier.... ;) ..now I know too.

US HEAT Rifle Grenade easily penetrates the side armor of a Panther G (40 LH, 50/30° UH) in CMAK. Did not test upper limit.

Personally I can live with this "generic" version for the germans.

Some of the more interesting net sources regarding german RG´s:

http://www.inert-ord.net/ger03a/gerrg2/index.html

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Expenditure reports in Fritz Hahn´s book "Waffen und Geheimwaffen des deutschen Heeres 1933-1945" (weapons and secret weapons of the german army...) indicate that 299.300 "Gewehrpanzergranaten" (rifle AT grenades) were expended in 1942. That should include possibly the mentioned PPG40, the small "30" and the "Grosse" altogether.

In 1943 about 2.934.700 rifle AT grenades were expended. (and 5.354.200 of the HE version)

In 1944 about 6.195.900 rifle AT grenades were expended. (and 9.526.400 of the HE version)

In 1945 yet 629.500 rifle grenades were expended. (and 1.495.600 of the HE version)

Assuming that "expenditure" includes everything from "shot at enemy", "captured by enemy", "thrown away while retreating" ect., the used numbers alone tell me the rifle AT thingies were good for something at last! From 1943 onwards the most common target surely was the T-34 and Sherman tank and the used rifle AT grenade surely was the most common "Grosse" (Large) version that penetrates 70-80mm vertical armor. Would be interesting to know how many tanks fell prey to the german RG´s at last! :eek:

Does Combat Mission actually models single fire RG´s (unlike hand grenades)? If yes then the allocated ammo in CM appears to be a little low. Assuming a single soldier per squad to operate the cup launcher, then he actually had about 30 pieces (2 bags containing 15) to carry according to this website:

http://www.inert-ord.net/ger03a/gerrg2/becher/index.html

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  • 3 weeks later...
Originally posted by RockinHarry:

...Assuming a single soldier per squad to operate the cup launcher, then he actually had about 30 pieces (2 bags containing 15) to carry according to this website: above

I love the German Rifle Grenades and I for one have a problem with the ammo load in CM for them being under modelled, since it was usual for the Rifle Grenadier to carry at least one basic load of 5 AT & 10 HE RGs AIUI.
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My wish would be to see more of these available to units as well.

Differentiation between the types HE & HEAT would be nice.

Differentiation between HEAT types based on date and unit would be the icing on the cake!

GGP40 [LW only + rare] until Feb-42 (40-45mm)

Gew.Pz.Gr.30 [all] Feb-Dec42? (30-40mm) (Hogg states 40mm in Infantry Weapons of WW2)

Gew.Pz.Gr. Gross [all] Nov42-end? (70-80mm)

Gew.Pz.Gr.46 [sS only + rare] late43/early44ish to end? (90mm)

Gew.Pz.Gr.61 [sS only + rare] mid-late44ish-end? (125mm)

Mind you I'd also like to see more Soviet AT grenades modelled and less of the molotovs!

RPG-33/RPG-40 as a grenade bundle analogue.

RPG-43 (75mm) available to better than average (Guards/Navy/Airborne) troops as well as tank hunters.

RPG-6 (100mm) becoming available in 1945, possibly limited to tank-hunters.

Hungarians with downrated grenade bundles would also be nice. IIRC the M42 stick-grenade had a threaded charge case. Multiple charges could be screwed together sequentially onto one fuze. Like some sort of demented miniature bangalore...

I imagine one would only get 3 or at most 4 charges before the device became far too unweildy to throw!

Alas all these wishes are moot. No more patches. I bought this game far too late it seems.

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