Michael Dorosh Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 It's a lot easier to believe it when you can look at contemporary colour photos. Like these ISBN 0-393-01939-X THE ONSLAUGHT: THE GERMAN DRIVE TO STALINGRAD DOCUMENTED IN 150 UNPUBLISHED COLOUR PHOTOGRAPHS - published in West Germany 1984, and the English version in 1985 Here's two photos of a fighting position; note the small swastika flag on the trench lip, plus the Russian camo smock worn by the German infantryman. Terrific book if anyone can find it. Andrew, have you been putting roster numbers on your gas mask cases? Can't wait to see this in the engine rewrite.... [ May 26, 2003, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 1st Hussars Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Care to explain the point of wearing camoflauge in a foxhole that has a nice bright red flag right next to it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I am willing to bet that the flag was placed in such a way that only aircraft can see it and the camo pattern has obvious uses against snipers. That flag seems to be in a small depression. MikeT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted May 27, 2003 Author Share Posted May 27, 2003 MikeT is correct about the flag. The caption in the book does mention this as well, but it is common sense to deduce the intended use of the flag, which Mike has exactly right. The camo smock may also be a prized souvenir, like an officer's belt, or Russian poncho. A lot of German troops picked up enemy clothing "just because." One would doubt many frontline troops wore captured enemy camo in any army, but I've also seen photos here and there of a) an American BAR man wearing a Waffen SS helmet cover a British sniper wearing an SS smock So it was done on occasion. The smock in this case would probably have advantages over the zeltbahn, ie better freedom of movement. Bear in mind most of these colour photos were taken in rear area positions, and often of the Propaganda Kompanie personnel themselves! So there is a chance this is a REMF "looking cool" with a captured smock. [ May 26, 2003, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Can't wait to see this in the engine rewrite.... Me neither -- I've been wanting horses and wagons for a long time. Has anyone done a 'greasy, muddy, urine filled wagon ruts in the road' mod yet? Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Carrot Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I think I would be leaning the other way 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGMB Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Soldiers, Nice photos. Dam right about the wagon mod- I want my wagon armed with quad flak guns though, not to mention multi turrets. Better yet, mulit turreted quad flak guns! [ May 27, 2003, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: Mbjvx ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Originally posted by MrSpkr: Has anyone done a 'greasy, muddy, urine filled wagon ruts in the road' mod yet? Steve Gods. Trust you to spot the urine in a black and white photo. Still, for the true hobbyist, I suppose it's a labour of love...or a least, water sports... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest konrad Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: One would doubt many frontline troops wore captured enemy camo in any army, but I've also seen photos here and there of a) an American BAR man wearing a Waffen SS helmet cover a British sniper wearing an SS smock Couple thousands of SS Tarnschlupfjäcke" version I - "Rauchtarnmuster" was captured in 1 VIII 1944 (first day of Warsaw Uprising) by soldiers of AK (Home Army). They called them "panterki" (panther skin,in very light translation).According to SS-Obergruppenführer von dem Bach, dressed in that way polish soldiers become almost invisible in ruins for german tankers. Of course,there was more of captured equipment and uniforms used ,on side with polish uniforms from 1939 ,and civilian clothes. AK soldiers [ May 27, 2003, 03:37 AM: Message edited by: lenakonrad ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest konrad Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 close -up:) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest konrad Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 another 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_the_wino Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 lenakonrad is that you? Can't be...no pronounced, sloping brow. Plus, that person is standing upright...which is something your family has yet to achieve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 M.D. What did the Germans actually carry in their promask cases? I know lots of people ditched theirs once it became appearent that no one was using gas. Many Americans just got rid of them case and all. Good place to store comfort items but I would imagine they were in short supply. James P.S. Is it just me or do color photos of WWII seem wrong somehow. I know its silly but I always picture it in black and white. Too many newsreels I guess. [ May 27, 2003, 04:13 AM: Message edited by: sgtgoody (esq) ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted May 27, 2003 Author Share Posted May 27, 2003 Gasmasks. They were accountable for them, so they carried them. Some may have ditched them - more likely they were left on the platoon wagon (each infantry platoon had its own horsecart, much like Commonwealth platoons had a 15 cwt truck) and the canister may have been used to carry food in - but that may only be a fantasy perpetuated by re-enactors who can't afford gasmasks. From what I understand, the Germans had a low tolerance for loss of kit. Not as much in the front line, perhaps, but if you went on leave to the Fatherland, I do believe you took all your kit with you, and woe betide the Landser who ran into a military policeman while on leave carrying a Russian weapon, wearing a pilotka, or missing items of kit he had signed for in his Soldbuch, which was carried with him at all times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flesh Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 There's lots of colour photos of the Eastern Front available from this Russian URL: http://angriff.narod.ru/fotopage/fotocol.tit.htm They look like scans from "Signal". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engel Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 That SMG carried by the guy on the right looks like a Sten, judging by the barrel shape. Airdrops by the SOE? [ May 27, 2003, 05:20 AM: Message edited by: Engel ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest konrad Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Originally posted by Engel: That SMG carried by the guy on the right looks like a Sten, judging by the barrel shape. Airdrops by the SOE? Possibly from drops ,or manufactured in country .Most of Sten guns used in Warsaw Uprising was from undergrund "factories".In other photo there is Thompson (drops ) and Bergmann Bgm35 (captured ) [ May 27, 2003, 06:22 AM: Message edited by: lenakonrad ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerDog Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Originally posted by Engel: That SMG carried by the guy on the right looks like a Sten, judging by the barrel shape. Airdrops by the SOE? Absolutely..... I'd recognize her anywhere. Spent a lot of nights sleeping beside our Sherman hugging that piece of kit. It was the first SMG that I qualified and carried it as a Sherman crew personal weapon until it was replaced by the 9mm Sterling SMG. It was the cheapest machined piece of weaponry I ever used. I believe it was made that way for its mass production appeal and speed of manufacture. I understand a LOT were exported for use by various allied forces and resistance units, which is one of the reasons it was made in 9mm so they could steal Axis ammo destined for their own SMGs. On the 35 yard range we would spray and pray as its accuracy was dismal. We were often cautioned about dropping it when loaded, since even with the safety on, it easily came off and there was a possibility that the Sten would hit on it's butt end and it would fire automatically as the bolt jerked backward then forward. The Sterling was better, but still a long way from the modern SMG technology. Regards, Badger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Sten knockoffs were a favorite of resistance movements because they could be easily manufactured in backyard factories. One of its only real merits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq): Is it just me or do color photos of WWII seem wrong somehow. I know its silly but I always picture it in black and white. Too many newsreels I guess. Not just you. I am having the same problem, and so does a friend of mine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 On the issue of wearing the other side's camo... Recently (perhaps in the Osprey COBRA campaign book) I saw a picture of U.S. Mechanized Infantry (4 Arm Div?) wearing camo fatigues. The caption pointed out that the practice was short-lived because it was too easy for other allied soldiers to mistake the American camo for an SS smock. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted May 27, 2003 Author Share Posted May 27, 2003 Originally posted by Martyr: On the issue of wearing the other side's camo... Recently (perhaps in the Osprey COBRA campaign book) I saw a picture of U.S. Mechanized Infantry (4 Arm Div?) wearing camo fatigues. The caption pointed out that the practice was short-lived because it was too easy for other allied soldiers to mistake the American camo for an SS smock. They were wearing US manufactured camouflage. The suits actually made the wearer more visible in certain situations, ie when moving, than the OD uniform, which was part of the reason they were abandoned as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted May 27, 2003 Author Share Posted May 27, 2003 Originally posted by Andreas: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq): Is it just me or do color photos of WWII seem wrong somehow. I know its silly but I always picture it in black and white. Too many newsreels I guess. Not just you. I am having the same problem, and so does a friend of mine. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ales Dvorak Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: It's a lot easier to believe it when you can look at contemporary colour photos. Hmmm.. where is my turn? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Is it just me or do color photos of WWII seem wrong somehow. They do. This struck me recently when watching the latter portion of The World At War - the color (presumably colorized?) footage from the Pacific was a sharp contrast to the almost exclusively black and white from Europe. It sure increased the impact of some of the ground shots, though. Blood just doesn't stand out in black and white. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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