undead reindeer cavalry Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 this is something i have always wondered: if one looks at the stats, the 75/L43 gun should be able to kill any Soviet tank face-to-face from 1000 meters. [except ISU-152] however, this does not seem to materialize on the battlefield. why? is the penetration margin just too slim, so that randomness steals the much needed last 10 millimeters of penetration? or is the punch just too weak, so that even while the shot is able to penetrate the armor, it won't cause enough damage? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkiviadis Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 I've found that once the range exceeds 600+ meters the T-34s armor sloping seems to come into effect...at least that's my theory. At 500- meters it's another story 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivodsi Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 I've found that once the range exceeds 600+ meters the T-34s armor sloping seems to come into effect...at least that's my theory. At 500- meters it's another story All things being equal, wouldn't the sloped angle be less effective at longer ranges? As a shell loses height it would plunge onto the armor, decreasing the effective angle of the slope. Of course, the angle at which the tank gets hit will depend on the terrain - rarely would conditions be perfectly flat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathdealer Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 I've killed SU85s many times up to 1450m with 75/L48 equipped JPzIVs with hull penetrations (no turret). The hull is of the same slope and thickness than that of regular T34s. 75/L48 is a bit more powerful but I don't think the difference is that big in performance. I guess you've had just bad luck with 75/L43s... Here are couple of pictures from one of my battles against another fellow Finn on the field. http://koti.mbnet.fi/~julkero/CMBB/turn_8_ja_10_SU85t.JPG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 hey deathdealer... any chance of you translating that page of yours into english or maby even swedish??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 but just in case you dont... kartta means map right? lataa means download 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undead reindeer cavalry Posted October 21, 2003 Author Share Posted October 21, 2003 Deathdealer, yeah, i think L43 and L48 are about the same. i do get kills, but they are less common than i would expect, judging from the stats. for example, i frequently kill Soviet JS2s with Finnish StuGs with 75/L48, but usually the shots aren't effective. perhaps it's just my subjective experience. but i'd love to know if there is some important factor that can't be seen from the stats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 The L/43 is effective enough that it was on the Pz.IVF2, Pz.IVG(Early) and the StuG IIIF. That is till the StuG IIIF/8 came into service. It came into service in early 1942 and was the best tank gun they had till the Tiger came into service. It does just fine against T-34/76 M40 through M43 from what I have seen. As for why they didn't use it longer. Why use the L/43 or L/46 in the Pz.IVG mid - J when the L/48 could be installed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Originally posted by Panzerman: As for why they didn't use it longer. Why use the L/43 or L/46 in the Pz.IVG mid - J when the L/48 could be installed? Going by memory.. The L/43 use the same barrel as the L/46 (the PaK weapon) combined with a shortened breach designed for confined spaces. Using a stubby shell casing it did not match the performance of the L/46, something that was pretty much remedied with the introduction of the L/48 gun. Another factor that was, as I understand it, as important as the performance gain was that the L/48 was cheaper and could be produced faster because it was a less sophisticated design. M. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkiviadis Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by Sivodsi: All things being equal, wouldn't the sloped angle be less effective at longer ranges? As a shell loses height it would plunge onto the armor, decreasing the effective angle of the slope... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexford Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Originally posted by Deathdealer: I've killed SU85s many times up to 1450m with 75/L48 equipped JPzIVs with hull penetrations (no turret). The hull is of the same slope and thickness than that of regular T34s. 75/L48 is a bit more powerful but I don't think the difference is that big in performance. I guess you've had just bad luck with 75/L43s... Here are couple of pictures from one of my battles against another fellow Finn on the field. http://koti.mbnet.fi/~julkero/CMBB/turn_8_ja_10_SU85t.JPG SU 85 front hull is at 50 degrees from vertical, T34 is at 60 degrees, which makes a big difference in terms of effective resistance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexford Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 The German 75L43 fired 6.8 kg APCBC projectiles at 740 m/s muzzle velocity, the 75L48 at 750 m/s and the 75L46 at 792 m/s, so the L46 would penetrate the most and the L43 the least. Penetration is roughly proportional to the velocity raised to the 1.43 power when the projectile weight and diameter are equal. The Russian 76.2mm L51.5 used in a Marder fired a 7.6 kg APCBC projectile at 710 m/s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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