Using the Wespe Effectively

[vedder]

Ok, I'm constantly trying to come up with new means of smiting my #1 oppenent Sidewinder, which means coming up with fresh tactics using different units in cmbb. Neither of us had ever really used AT mines until i brought them to the forefront when I found they were surprisingly effective. Now it is almost impossible to play an attack without coming across at least one AT mine

Which brings me to the wepse. I've always wondered if there is anyone out there that finds this SP artillery piece of any use. Sure, at first it looks like a bargain. Low priced, long range optics, and a great anti infantry ammo loadout. But upon further inspection, I've come to think the costs outweigh the benefits.

First off all, this thing has an obese profile. Even in a hull down position, nestled away from most lines of sight even an infantry squad can identify them at ranges of 1000 meters. This really ruins its use in a defensive environment, with a good oppenent capable of wiping out your entire wespe platoon before they see action.

Second, It has eggshell armor. This would be fine if your enemy was regulated to infantry only, but that's just not a realistic assumption to make. One might say this isn't much of a problem just speed away to another location when armor is spotted. Well, that brings us back to #1, usually the enemy can take you down before you even have a chance to issue a reverse order.

So, cm-wise ones, I implore you to teach me the secrets of using Wespe's in a combined arms battlefield. How did the germans use them? I was under the impression that they fired indirectly IRL, but that is either not the case or impossible to do in CMBB. Thank you for your time.

[Andreas]

They fired indirectly IRL. don't use them, buy a 105mm FOO instead.

[Redwolf]

Well, they were used indirectly and CM doesn't model this, it's as easy as that.

The inclusion in CM is mainly due to the fact that they serve some use if you model a an artillery battery being overrun or a last-resort battle. The Wespe was cheap for BFC to include because most of the 3D model and textures is already there from Marders, same for the Hummel which could reuse Nashorn components.

If you want a realistic direct-fire replacement use a StuH.

If you are stuck with a Wespe you have to use the superiour mobility. They are pretty swift and you have to use that to keep them alife. A pair of Wespes shooting smoke for each other and shoot-and-shooting between the smoke pillars shot by the other one can be big fun.

the long-range optics also make them useful for pure observation duty until late in the game.

[vedder]

Ah good. I thought I had the right idea about their use and I don't just suck with them

[JasonC]

Don't buy a whole platoon of them. They aren't a primary AT vehicle. Just use leftover armor points on 1 if you want to "multiply" the anti-infantry impact of winning the armor war. They are like SPW-251/9s that way.

What you would like from the armor is just to stop MG bullets and ATR rounds. It is good enough for the former from the front. As for ATRs, at 800-1000m you are out of their range and can still hit things yourself. At 500-800, they need a hit on the superstructure. Combined with the need to hit in the first place and small behind armor effect even when they penetrate, that is livable as long there aren't hordes of the things and you don't give them all day to fire. Inside 500m they are getting dangerous.

As for how to use them, stay out of sight in low ground or behind a large block of woods, or park behind a house until late in the day. After the armor war, bring it out to blow up Russian infantry. Keyhole to limit your exposure to any remaining ATGs or ATRs. You only need one enemy in sight at a time. 500-1000m range - you don't need or want to get close. One minute of fire should be sufficient for any infantry target. Then reposition.

If you have HC ammo, you can in a pinch hunt a single enemy tank with one. With so few shots, you want the engagement opening range to be 500m or less. The enemy has to be facing the wrong way, dealing with something else. Button the target up before. That part is like using a Marder, except with more limited range because of the need to make only a few shots count. The HC will kill a T-34, the HE will not.

The Grille is a similar option, with much bigger shells but less range. Those really need 500m to hit accurately. That starts getting hard because they are vunerable to so much that close.

The Brumbar you can think of as an armored "Grille", while the StuH is the armored "Wespe". Full prices in return for the protection. But the protection is very good, as long as you keep front aspect facing and the enemy has 76mm guns and under. (Even the 85mm has trouble against the Brumbar). The StuH has somewhat better AT ability than the Brumbar, from a higher velocity gun and more HC.

Of the primarily HE vehicles, the best all around is certainly the StuH. You can always use vehicle points on SPW-251/9s as well, to increase the impact of winning the armor war. Those have a good ammo load and an MG - but their armor is even thinner than a Wespe (ATRs kill an any range), and the gun is smaller.

All these types are excellent reasons for Russian players to take 2-4 ATRs, incidentally. For very little cost, those will drastically limit the potential downside of losing the tank battle, by keeping all the half tracks, armored cars, and thin SP guns at bay.

[MikeyD]

Yup, can't use the Wespe until the board's been completely and thoroughly swept clean of attacking armor.

I have a (possibly dumb) idea for the tactical use of the Wespe. Buy one and 'shoot-and-scoot' it early in the game so your opponent knows its on the board. Then retreat it into a safe area protected by anti-tank guns and let it just sit there as bait, waiting for you opponent to drive on in for an 'easy kill'. Heh heh.

That sneaky gamey tactic is up there with my 'airplane magnet' suggestion. Buy a couple truck just so you can place them in the corner of the board. Any maurading aircraft will automatically attack the trucks leaving your other units alone. Again... Heh heh.

[ April 16, 2003, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ]

[SgtMuhammed]

Relying on them as an AT asset is a dissaster waiting to happen. They are useful as trench crackers provided the enemy lacks any real AT assets or you have a good firing position.

Like any weapon system, there are times when you will say, "Wow! How did I ever live without these things," and there are times when you will say, "man this thing bites."

[xerxes]

Using them as "bait" for the enemy armor is a good idea.

Defensively they are very good assets. Keep them out of sight and move them so they just have LOS to a platoon of enemy infantry. Reverse and get out of LOS immediately the next turn. That way the enemy armor can't deploy to hit you. If you have a good covered "redeployment zone" you can do this quite a bit defensively. The key is to not let the Wespe sit in the same spot. The other is to make sure LOS to the Wespe is restricted.

On the attack a similar approach can be used but you have to risk ATRs and AT guns. You have to keep LOS to the Wespe as limited as possible while still being able to target.

[Dschugaschwili]

Originally posted by xerxes:

On the attack a similar approach can be used but you have to risk ATRs and AT guns. You have to keep LOS to the Wespe as limited as possible while still being able to target.

This can work really well. In a PBEM game I'm currently playing, I bought a platoon of a German 75mm equipped vehicle (don't know the exact type right now). Although there are enemy SP guns, AT guns and ATRs around, all vehicles are still alive (by turn 21) and happily shooting up enemy infantry. As long as you have some real tanks to keep the enemy armor at bay and you're careful where you drive them, you're fine.

Dschugaschwili