Neuer Art Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 When building scenarios up to mid-1943, I've noticed that Russian artillery and air support tend to be rare (that IS what the "+60%," "+200%," and other such numbers mean in the CMBB Unit Editor screen, right?). From what I've read of action on the Eastern Front, I get the impression that the Russians had considerable artillery support after the initial confusion of the summer of 1941. In fact, Russian artillery on the east bank of the Volga played a significant part in denying the Germans complete control of Stalingrad in 1942-43. The Russians even had several truck-mounted Katyusha rocket launchers hidden in caves on the west bank, near the city's center. The trucks would periodically reverse out of the caves, fire off a salvo of rockets, and scoot back inside to avoid counter-battery fire. Anyway, the question is - was Russian artillery support really as rare as the Unit Editor screen indicates? How about air support, didn't the Russians achieve some degree of local air superiority in various areas along the Eastern Front starting in late 1942? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 testing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Uh-oh. The board is doing weird things again. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Due to massive artillery piece losses during 1941, Soviets did have trouble to equip their units with reasonable amount of artillery support sometimes. They did compensate that with massive use of heavy mortars that are cheap and fast to produce. Besides, IRCC lot of Soviet artillery didn't belong to divisions, corps or even armies, but was was front or even higher HQ assets that were moved place to place to give local superiority. After production in 1942 onwards started to really roll, then situation changed. There is also the factor that they had to relocate lot of factories due to German advance and that doesn't happen fast. Cheers, M.S. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Originally posted by Sardaukar: Due to massive artillery piece losses during 1941, Soviets did have trouble to equip their units with reasonable amount of artillery support sometimes. They did compensate that with massive use of heavy mortars that are cheap and fast to produce. Besides, IRCC lot of Soviet artillery didn't belong to divisions, corps or even armies, but was was front or even higher HQ assets that were moved place to place to give local superiority. After production in 1942 onwards started to really roll, then situation changed. There is also the factor that they had to relocate lot of factories due to German advance and that doesn't happen fast. Cheers, M.S.Post 1941 this is only correct for calibres above 76mm. The 76mm divisional gun was ubiquitous, with enough produced in 1942 to equip all rifle divisions twice over (as Kip could tell you). Heavy artillery was rare in CM terms because it was concentrated in RGVK regiments, and later in artillery divisions. This was to enable concentration of artillery along the main axis of attack, and facilitate breakthrough operations. If you want to play such a battle as QB, choose a Soviet Assault setting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 The other thing to consider is that rarity tries to give an idea of the liklihood of seeing such assets used on the scale engagement you typically see in CM. Many larger Artillery assets are more frequently used for CB, interdiction, and massive prep barrages for assaults (or large barrages to slow or stop large enemy assaults). Most of these uses are not typically seen on the CM scale. Occasionally, yes, you'd see big stuff used to support battalion-level assaults. That's why they're in the game. You just wouldn't see them as often on the small tactical scale as you would mortars and smaller guns. Somewhere around here I have a book with the total number of Mortar shells and Gun/Howitzer shells used by the Russians vs. the Germans and other Allies. The difference is quite impressive - proportionately speaking, the Russians used alot more mortar shells than the other combatants. Cheers, YD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 I sometimes having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of 'rarity' in CMBB. Sure, it's effective at skewing the game towards more typical engagements. But you've got to figure at at least one point in the war a Soviet commander was able to drop heavy artillery onto a company of Tiger tanks. The heavy artillery may have been as rare as hen's teeth but it was available at that moment. Ditto for the Tiger Company. I guess that's why they let us make our own home-made scenarios. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Originally posted by MikeyD: I sometimes having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of 'rarity' in CMBB. Sure, it's effective at skewing the game towards more typical engagements. But you've got to figure at at least one point in the war a Soviet commander was able to drop heavy artillery onto a company of Tiger tanks. The heavy artillery may have been as rare as hen's teeth but it was available at that moment. Ditto for the Tiger Company. I guess that's why they let us make our own home-made scenarios.The whole 'rarity' idea is quite artifical. But then again, so are QBs in general. IRL, a battalion or company level commander wouldn't be able to pick the forces under his command. Maybe some polite requests to higher ups based on the anticpated mission, but that's about it. The interesting irony of your comment about hitting a company of Tigers with Heavy Artillery is that a lower-level commander would be much more likely to get big arty support if a really attractive target like a company of Tigers showed up in front of him. Of course, it might take a while for such big support to actually show up, but a whole company of Tigers also doesn't usually just show up on your doorstep with no warning (occasional masterful tactical surprises excepted!!). This kind of thing is very difficult to simulate in a QB. In a well-made scenario, though, it can be lots of fun. . . Cheers, YD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Originally posted by MikeyD: ... Sure, it's effective at skewing the game towards more typical engagements. But you've got to figure at at least one point in the war a Soviet commander was able to drop heavy artillery onto a company of Tiger tanks. ...This is why I prefer the "random" setting for rarity. Cheers Olle 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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