Jump to content

Operation Störfang (Sevastopol 1942)


Recommended Posts

JaegerMeister,

You have been fighting an heavy battle. Advancing trough the landscape of Sevastopol is not easy. While you're talking about playing the battle as realistic as possible, the outcome of the battle seams realistic to me, yes? You have lost a lot of men and material but still managed to reach the objectives. Von Manstein would be proud. Breaking trough the enemy's line of defence is a victory on its own.

The Russians built their strongholds on natural barriers and 'hills with a nice view'. Yes, It took al long time for the placement of the guns. As I looked trough the eyes of the Russians, I found a lot of nice spots. If you were playing against me, instead of the AI, I would use the same LOS. This way the battle may be tough but as realistic as possible. Operation Störfang is not for dummy's who are playing CM for the first time. I want to force the players to use all of their tactics they know (or need to gain). Any one has the choice to drop out of the battle when they've received the access code. It's your decision to continue with the 4th. I didn't want to leave an empty space for those who reached their objectives and still want to advance on enemy ground. It wouldn't be realistic, no?

I will use all the AAR's for the release of the final version of A1 and the other info for designing other missions.

And finally : Yes, I am a sadist! :D

icon_bbs.gif Eichenbaum

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 142
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

MARKL

Some testing have been done on a PIII 450MHz ~ 32MB RIVA-TNT ~ 256MB PC133 RAM. That's a minimum!

The movements of the camera are a bit slow if you use the full or extreme coverage of terrain elements. Bringing down the coverage of trees and terrain elements will result in a better performance.

With all the processors you'll encounter long 'AI-thinking'. These maps are 3 * 3 km and filled with units. As you proceed with the mission the time for 'thinking' will increase. Processors with more clock-speed will be faster in the process.

If players don't like to wait for the AI's turns they can always pick smaller scenarios. I always think about the tactics when I have to wait for the AI. Good planning does take a lot of time.

icon_bbs.gif Eichenbaum

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Coe,

You'll see a large set-up zone in the 2nd battle. That's a typical CM calculation of the zones. It has to do with the parameters 'battle window size'. This 'window size' creates a constant view of a pre-defined distance.

The side effects of this 'window size' : From the 2nd battle on, the map will be divided in almost 2 equal parts. Often you'll gain ground you didn't clear from enemy activity.

icon_bbs.gif Eichenbaum

[ July 13, 2003, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: eichenbaum ]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hoi Eichenbaum,

finally i got the code. It was in battle three.

This i how i got the code, (maybe gamey or not)

the first battle i got al my german troops in the middle to the objective A my panzers to waypoint 2

and rushed my fj to the houses higher up the romanian troops all to the right side and send them strait to objective three. So i got past waypoint two had a big fight by objective a and the rest of my forces just moved forward. On the second battle all my arty was directed at the bunkers.The hole battle it was just a shooting range for my panzer (lost a few) but steadily shot every bunker away.The hole second battle my forces on right and left could go forward without much trouble.By then my forces on the right side where near the third objective.So when i started the third battle i got the code. Lost about 20% of my forces. I didnt finish i right now but surely have a go for it later. I like to say just as all the others this is one kick ass scenario.

But one thing i dont understand i had only objective a and i have won the battle???

Is this because the forces on my flanks pushed much further ahead the my main force??

But anyway can you send me the sequel

dankje wel alvast

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by MAUS_TD:

...But one thing i dont understand i had only objective a and i have won the battle???

Is this because the forces on my flanks pushed much further ahead the my main force??

But anyway can you send me the sequel

dankje wel alvast ...

Hallo Maus,

Yes indeed, you could win the mission by only taking one objective. You have won if you receive the access code. It's up to you if you want to get all of the objectives and/or finish the last battle. Receiving an access code can be done by conquering enough ground.

And no, I can't send you the sequel yet. The next missions are in development and in the testing zone. The releases are planned on the 29th of July! So keep tracking the eichenbaum website if you want to get them soon.

Note : Don't lose the access code or else you won't be able to play the next missions.

Met vriendelijke groet,

icon_bbs.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eichenbaum

What is being said is that is possible to gain the access code by advancing forces allmost unopposed up the flanks. The majority of thge IVAN force disposition defends the centre.

This is a great map and good scenario, however I think to really polish it off you need to add extra IVAN forces (maybe the odd ATG bunker) on the flanks.

As it stands the player can get the code without actually feeling like he has achieved anything. I felt it was quite easy to get the code. To actualy beat the scenario (In terms of normal victory conditions ) is quite another question. I dont consider my tactics gamey either as it sound practise to deploy and advance units on all flanks. My paratroops on the left intialy met some easily overcome opposition and then had unopposed movement deep into the left flank which exposed the code. Whilst I condsider this scenario very good and realy like the concept I think it would be even better if the IVAN flanks were not so easy to roll over.

On another note, perhaps another way of doing this, perhaps with smaller battles, is to have the next battle one must fight predicated by the victory outcome. For example

If TotalVic then play map A2

If Major then play map A2

If Tac then PLay map A2

If minor then play map A3

If draw play map A3

If major defeat map B1 etc etc.

Of course you would have to rely on the honour system. Might be rather labour intensive to set up also.

Anyway Great idea, and great scenario just my thoughts on how it could be made even better.

Cheers

Kernow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Kernow.

The 1st mission can't be too difficult to play. I don't want to scare off players from playing the whole operation. As you advance to the main port city Sevastopol, it will get more and more difficult. In every mission the player has the choice to achieve all objectives that are given in the mission briefing. That's the real challenge but not necessary.

The system you pointed to me can't be checked. A player can cheat by saying he did achieve a major victory while the truth is something else. With access codes I can behold the players movements on the map. No access code, no movement.

The parameter 'Battle-Window-Size' will be diferent in other grids on the map. If the distance (Window-Size) is decreased, it will be more difficult to get the code.

icon_bbs.gif Eichenbaum

[ July 14, 2003, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: eichenbaum ]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great Idea, I actually registered to responed to this thread. Hmm, how can I say this.

I'd like to speak up for the average guy who isn't a military genius. Since you asked for advice to incorporate into the next version.

First off, the idea is really good and the map is designed flawlessly, and it is beautiful! The guns are laid out perfectly as well. I think I may design a similar campaign/code thing. I'll borrow the idea not the maps, so don't worry. smile.gif

But, I don't think I'll ever want play this particular campaign again. I got the code, but it wasn't a good investment in time vs fun for me. For others it may be worth it. I'm sure the gronards will love it! (Crazy bastards). If you cut the scope of the battle in half you may have something (fun/time/processing moves wise). It was such a relief to be done with it and get a minor defeat. I consider that a welcome outcome!

For a Recon group their task is pretty daunting task! this is more of a job of a SS Regiment hopped up on Cocaine!! Give us some REAL support weapons (more tanks please!!!!!) and more time per battle to manevure! I can't imagine the Germans attacking with this underwhelming recon force and succeeding against all those bunkers/guns/inf and making it to the airfield. Arty didn't do squat against those bunkers unfortunately in my case and the IL2s were right on. By the time I knew they were there I lost one stug and another with gun damage. :( Maybe only put in one sturmovik.

All the Russian troops are regular!? Wouldn't the majority still be considered Green/Reg. At least make the Germans Reg/Vet with the paratroopers Crack/Vet.

For a Gronard = smile.gif

For me = :mad: at the play balance and bored in some cases since I didn't have the power to punch through so I basically sat there while my troops and the Russians traded fire for 5 rounds until I could bring up someting to push them back. When the AI counter-attacked me on the left side (paratroopers) that was the end of my forward progress on that side.

Are you going to give out a T-Shirt for people who get the final Code saying "I beat the Storfang Campaign!" That might make me want to suffer though it. heh. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eichenbaum,

First, this campaign idea is very good and your execution of it has been well done. I have some comments regarding A1.

*** SPOILERS ***

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

The following are meant in the manner of constructive criticism. Overall, I have enjoyed the first operation. Thank you for setting it up.

I have obtained the access code for the next operation after completing 2 battles. I see no contact point on your website to which I can address an email containing that information. (I do not wish to join yet another internet forum with all the attendant codes, passwords, usernames, eula's, etc.) A simply "email eichenbaum" button on the home page would be great.

In both battles I had encircled the Soviets in a tight pocket. Then the battle ended. The pockets remained as non-Axis setup zones. I set my forces up for the crushing destruction of the many trapped Soviet infantry squads and tanks. Nothing there. This is a combination of issues with the CMBB operation engine and your design choices (and my speed of play). I think tweaking the battle lengths a little longer would be a good idea. My guess would be a 25+ turn length. (Keep the variable ending.)

This increase would also allow the German to actually use some offboard artillery in an on-call situation. As it is now, the battle will end before most, if not all, artillery missions can be completed. (Unless they are preplanned.) Other units would also benefit from more time to get in position to be useful. (Towed guns, etc.)

In battle 2, my forces have been hit hard by Soviet airpower. In fact, my ONLY vehicular losses have been due to the IL-2's. I have kept them dispersed and tight against woods and in scattered trees in an effort to shield them. In other words, I have kept anti-air tactics in mind throughout my advance. I may have just had bad luck. I would either reduce the Soviet air support or increase the German FlaK defense. (My quad 20 has managed to knock down one IL-2.)

These are mostly minor gripes and are offered as such. Again, this is an original idea exploiting the strengths and weaknesses of the CMBB engine and I think you've done a great job.

Thank you,

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Ken!

I'll use the information for the 2nd release of A1. This week the mission will be altered and placed on our website. Thanks again for the AAR!

Names and passwords for our forum can be the same as you use on other websites. I won't and I can't extract the passwords from our forum!

Our e-mail adres is available on our website, its placed on the tab "Telefunken". Or just use this one : eichenbaum@eichenbaum.org

icon_bbs.gif Eichenbaum

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope I didn't offend you Eichenbaum! Sorry for not using a spoiler in my last post.

Actually I do like large battles as they can be very engaging. I think you have a VERY good idea.

I agree wholeheartedly with Ken when he says we need more time. 25+ sounds good. I too was frustrated when I finally thought I had a chance at destroying a large number of Russians only to have the round end. I think that irritated me the most.

Fewer Sturmoviks, More German Air and more German Support weapons (off board arty, 4 or 5 PIVs) and you have a winner IMO! I'm sure you won't like this, but I added these elements stated above and have begun to replay the operation. It is still difficult and slow going when you hit the pillboxes, but I find it tremendously more enjoyable and rewarding. I have noticeably more flexibility to attack through their defenses. A stug firing into a pillbox at point black range brings a smile to anyone's face!

Thank you for you time and effort to create this.

[ July 15, 2003, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: Innoculo ]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too easy? I dont agree with that statement, other than the fact that the Russians (in my battle) withdrew from good defensive positions at the start of each new battle, but they certainly gave me a hard time, counter-attacking on both flanks, not to mention the bunker complex!

I think it was too easy to get the password, maybe a couple of hard to attain victory objectives might have helped (was there a design reason for not having any?). I dont really think the Germans needed any extra forces than what we are given, but i would add some Luftwaffe support for authenticity.

Having said all that most of my infantry casualties came only in the 4th battle from the heavy russki artillery..at least 45 men were wiped out instantly in the opening minutes from a nasty barrage in two places !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just for the record, I would like to play this PBEM. I think that this would be an incredibly hard battle to win as the Germans against a more reactive adversary. When my operation ended the Russians still had some 1,000 troops. Oh what I could do with 1,000 screaming Russians fighting to the last man. :D It sends chills up my spine thinking of the human wave counterattacks. In this case I would plus up the Germans with more armor and air, extend the time and fix more of the Russian units in place preventing counterattacks in the first battle and ensuring "gentlemens" agreements are in place to limit Russian redeployment in subsequent battles. I would fight to the last man on the first objective. :eek: The operation would be brutal for both sides.

As always I will finish with a compliment to Eichenbaum. GREEAT Operation! Hat's off.

von Nev

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of Russian troops who had survive the first battle have retreated and made a new line of defense a few kilometers to the West. In the mission of grid B1 you can fight them once more!

Note : A (CM) victory in A1 is almost impossible. That was not the intention in the 1st place. This is a recon movement (and maybe a small probe attack). Receiving the access code is enough, the mission briefing does not say anything about eliminating all the Russians on the map. Just achieve the objectives with a minimum of casualties.

At this moment B1 is undergoing some testing before it will be released (soon).

icon_bbs.gif Eichenbaum

ps.: Jaegermeister, von Nev and KNac, you should have receive an e-mail sent by me! If not, please contact me a.s.a.p. smile.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some new releases of missions are in our testing zone!

If everything goes allright, 2 missions will be added to Operation Sörfang on the 29th of July.

icon_bbs.gif Eichenbaum

ps. You don't have to reply this topic any longer. There's a new one for the release of version 1.1!

Matt or Martin : Can this topic be closed ?

[ July 20, 2003, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: eichenbaum ]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...