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i like the jagdtiger to its devestating. What ive read about those monsters is that nearly all of them where destroyed by there own crew after bogging down of no ammo but most times cause of lack of fuel.

I thought most crews where pleased to drive a jt.Because you where safer in there than in the fuhrers bunker.

The downside was only the lack of power from its engines and its petrol use.

maus_td

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KOd one with a Russian AT grenade...I think it was the RPG one. Granted, it was being commanded by a 10 year old :D

Aircraft can probably do a number on them, too.

Originally posted by FM Paul Heinrik:

You think the jagdpather is good....try the jagdtiger. I've never seen that sucker destroyed. It will usually get immobilized or run out of ammo, only after it destroys every moving vehicle on the map.

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Originally posted by Brent Pollock:

KOd one with a Russian AT grenade...I think it was the RPG one. Granted, it was being commanded by a 10 year old :D

Aircraft can probably do a number on them, too.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by FM Paul Heinrik:

You think the jagdpather is good....try the jagdtiger. I've never seen that sucker destroyed. It will usually get immobilized or run out of ammo, only after it destroys every moving vehicle on the map.

</font>
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Mr. Tittles,

The Germans should have dropped the KingTiger program and put the resources into Panther/Jagdpanther. Perhaps another 1000 Panther and 500 Jagdpanther could have been made.
True, KT needed much more armor steel, but as Speer clearly shows in his memoirs, limiting factor up to late 1944 were the necessary tool/machines and manpower to produce more tanks, so it's highly unlike that much more Panthers could have been produced than actual KTs.

For instance, the main weakness of the Panther, the finaldrive could have been made better if there would have been the necessary tooling machinery (Planetary gear).

Manhours needed to complete one Panther = 2000 Hours:

Hullmachining: 55 Hours

Turretmachining: 38 hrs.

Suspension/Wheel mounting: 485 hrs. !!!! (Panther was the sole Tank ever being equipped with a double torsion bar suspension -> far superior to anything else)

Turret mounting: 150 hrs.

Final mounting: 85 hrs.

Btw. Germany wouldn't have been able to continue the war beyond May/June 45 because it's lack of raw materials (Chrome)

(In a Memroandum to Hitler in Feb. 44 Speer notes that Chrome would all be used up in 6 months -> August 44. Chrome had to be bought from Turkey, hence the sporadical weapon deliveries to Turkey). Without Chrome no Aircrafts, Tanks and Guns, Cars and U-Boats !

Needed raw materials for:

Metric tons

Pz IV Panther Tiger II

Iron unalloyed 20.2 33.4 44.0

Iron alloyed 18.8 44.1 75.8

I don't think that much more manhours were needed to complete a KT (less complicated running gear) than for a Panther.

Of course KT was the wrong tank for a nation in such a state as the Reich in 44, however it was planned only shortly after Tiger I in 1942 (First tanks should have been finished in fall 43). Preparing for a "Great Defence" in 43 would have been rated defaetistic by Hitler, who could only think in offensive terms and was keen to have the KT and Tiger I (The ill-fated opening of the Tiger I in the swamps at Armygroup North were ordered explecit by him, and very closely watched.)

Sources: Albert Speer "Erinnerungen"

Walter J.Spielberger "Panther and it's Variants"

Greets

Daniel

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Originally posted by FM Paul Heinrik:

You think the jagdpather is good....try the jagdtiger. I've never seen that sucker destroyed. It will usually get immobilized or run out of ammo, only after it destroys every moving vehicle on the map.

yeah, Jagdtiger was a real monster.

Jagdtiger and Jagdpanther were quite different beasts. Jagdpanther was actually quite fast and mobile, and could be used both to defend and attack. Jagdtiger was more like a bunker on tracks - a thing that could be used only on defence. it was extremely slow and broke down even faster than King Tiger.

i wonder if vehicles can get immobilized in Combat Mission just by turning to new direction?

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Originally posted by undead reindeer cavalry:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by FM Paul Heinrik:

You think the jagdpather is good....try the jagdtiger. I've never seen that sucker destroyed. It will usually get immobilized or run out of ammo, only after it destroys every moving vehicle on the map.

yeah, Jagdtiger was a real monster.

Jagdtiger and Jagdpanther were quite different beasts. Jagdpanther was actually quite fast and mobile, and could be used both to defend and attack. Jagdtiger was more like a bunker on tracks - a thing that could be used only on defence. it was extremely slow and broke down even faster than King Tiger.

i wonder if vehicles can get immobilized in Combat Mission just by turning to new direction? </font>

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