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Russian Training Scenarios


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I'm wondering if there is an interest in scenarios that would qualify as training scenarios. These are scenarios that have been playtested, with full briefings, and had been posted to The Scenario Depot before the crash.

We never made a pack of scenario like Jason has but according to reviews they were used to train new gamers. If anyone is interested in a zip pack of those I could put them together.

I would be interested in seeing what other designers have put together that would qualify as training scenarios as well.

In the meantime, I will continue to work my way through Jason's excellent small snips of the Ukraine. Army Group South never looked so good... :D

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Another good set of training scenarios would always be welcome.

I would like to see one like the old "King of the hill" from CMBO.(playd as allies) Or something similar tha has the ability to moove trops around to diferent places in vehicles to counter attacks with a fair chance of their surviving.

I remember one that was also very good for anti tank rifle training, but I am having trouble finding it.

It may have been by Sergi or Theike as I remember the map itelf was excellent. If I can find it I will post it's name.

Cheers MarkL

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Today I found the time to retry 110 again.

This was the 4th time and finally I succeeded, but I don't know what exactly I did differently than the 2nd and 3rd try.

I think it was a bit of luck to get an ID earlier than before: I got it with the first squad reaching the wooden fence. From then on it was advancing under effective overwatch that was successfull.

I did not use area-fire, but I did put covered arcs over the trench.

Outcome

tutorial-110.jpg

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Tried 111 this morning. Took the trench with no losses.

I split the command. One Plt. going along the road with an HMG. The other Plt. going up the right side of the map into the woods over there. This was to force the defense to take on two seperate targets on different axis. As I sneaked past the fence to my assault positions I hit the trench line with smoke from the mortar and advanced with both platoons.

I put an HMG in the last house and one in the woods on the left. The company commander went into the house. Mortar was on the left by the woods with a view of almost the entire map.

Took the trench without losses by about turn 12 so I decided to after the other German position. I never did get close enough to ID him. I kept trying to pin him with area fire but couldn't get his exact location like you can with a trench. Either way with about 4 more turns I would have gotten him as well.

I had one man killed.

Fire and move was getting Russian soldiers closer and closer to him. The Germans had to be getting nervous over there... :D

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Just a few comments.

Firstly, a big thank you to JasonC for an entertaining and educational. set of scenarios. I am currently working my way through steadily.

Secondly, scenario 110 proved particularly 'instructive,' got there in the end once I realised that putting the HQ on hide in an attempt to keep him intact was particularly unproductive given that they are the only unit with binoculars. Thereafter the clear spots of the HMG came a bit earlier and all was well.

Thirdly, if you are to win 200 sight unseen you have to make a good choice for your line of attack. As you will probably guess from this I did not! I managed to spot the low fold to the right leading through the successive small woods. For some reason I decided that was a line to be avoided on the basis that it provided plenty of defensive positions and was bound to be stuffed with bad guys :rolleyes:

My addled brain concluded that it would be better to go up the centre and left and that the terrain would screen me from defenders on the right. I cunningly positioned my T34s well back in the set up zone to provide overwatch and hit 'Go.' About 20 seconds into turn 1 the AT gun opened up from German rear areas and killed 2 T34s in 3 shots. The 3rd T34 died 10 seconds into Turn 2 as he tried to break LOS :( Thereafter the attack made some progress but eventually ground to a halt short of the second objective as lack of DF HE began to tell.

Second try at the scenario I went up the right and all was well, major victory. Right, onwards and upwards.

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I am stuck on 110. Sort of. If I advance until I can ID the trench and then stagger the 2 squads between area fire on the trench and advancing I can win 100-0. Any other method

I try is a disaster. If the MG can fire on my greens and stay hidded it is all over. My recon by death is recon by loss.

Any thoughts? My lesson here is that recon by

fire is the way to go. Can that be true? Area

fire any likely hiding spot on the advance?

Thanks JasonC for these scenarios. Lots to learn.

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More on 110:

I confirmed that PC's technique of area firing the trench while advancing, before the MG opens up, does work. I got puzzled by why the MG would suppress under the preemptive area fire but would not suppress under area fire if the MG had already opened up (at least it wouldn't for me)). So I tried the scenario using Hot Seat, so I could observe how the MG reacted to this preemptive fire. However, I ended up discovering something even more interesting when I did that.

Others have commented that the MG doesn't open fire until the russians have gotten relatively close to spotting range (under 200 meters say). When using Hot Seat, the MG opens up as soon as it spots any russians -- even on the first turn. Evidently, in single player mode, the AI is holding back fire for some reason, but in Hot Seat only the TacAI is operating, and it fires at much greater ranges (I don't give any orders to the MG, just watch what he does).

This Hot Seat approach is a much more difficult problem for the russians, but perhaps one that's a bit more "realistic." With your troops under fire from as far away as 400 meters possibly, your platoon leader has a real job keeping everyone moving forward. Also, you really test your ability to use Jason's famous "eating ammo" approach. If you try this, I recommend changing the scenario length to 30, because you need all the rally time you can get. However, the end game is much different because you don't need a lot of FP to suppress the MG once the MG gets low on ammo.

Playing this scenario both ways really teaches you how to manage infantry against either ranged fire or fire that's been held back to a shorter range (or when it shifts between the two the way a human player would do it).

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I was able to get a 50/50 on 110.

Left squad to the left house, 2nd squad between that and the trees, 3rd and CO to the trees, right squad to the house on the right close to the trench. I then area fired all at the trench. About half way to 20 the game auto ceasefired with the MG panicked in the trench.

Had I known or seen the MG in trouble I would have advanced the right squad to the flag.

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Originally posted by junk2drive:

I was able to get a 50/50 on 110.

Left squad to the left house, 2nd squad between that and the trees, 3rd and CO to the trees, right squad to the house on the right close to the trench. I then area fired all at the trench. About half way to 20 the game auto ceasefired with the MG panicked in the trench.

Had I known or seen the MG in trouble I would have advanced the right squad to the flag.

I think once you start to area fire the trench you short rush a squad. If the MG doesn't fire at that squad you advance the rest of them as well. All you are doing at that point is gaining surrender bonus points for the HMG crew.
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junk2drive: If you want to avoid the auto ceasefire on 110 (which is likely to happen if you are hosing the trench and/or the MG for many minutes), change the scenario to an Allied Assault in the scenario editor. I found that it would auto ceasefire even in the Allied Attack setting as well as the Probe setting.

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Word of warning - if you do A.I. free to setup, they won't always put the MG in the trench. First time I played through 111, I saw the trench, assumed one of the MGs was in there, and opened fire in a big way. But I still couldn't advance. Turns out neither MG was in the trench - it was just a decoy. So just because you see the trench doesn't mean you're home free.

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Jason: if you get a minute I'd love to get a comment related to my posting about playing 110 in Hot Seat mode. The dilemma I've found is that when the MG is free to open up at any range, one of two things happens:

1. You can get your platoon into the shadow of the house behind the fence in reasonably good order in reasonably good time (assuming your added more time to the scenario), by avoiding his fire zones as much as possible. However, by definition you haven't depleted his ammo load much. At that point it's virtually impossible to push past the house. I've found that you can't even get a spot on the trench from the house -- it's more than 200m away -- much less try area fire on it or anything like that.

2. You can get caught in his fire zones at range and deplete his ammo. This helps because if his ammo load is way down, you can push past the house. But deliberately moving into his fire zones in order to deplete his ammo is a risky strategy to say the least -- he can break a squad at well over 400m -- and one I haven't figured out how to do well.

Is there a third option or approach, or this is scenario largely unwinnable for the Russians if the MG is free to fire at range?

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The trouble with simply spraying the whole trench with fire is that its rarely enough to suppress anything that might be in it. It seems to take about a whole platoon concentrating its fire on one place to suppress the MG in there. Therefore, I've found it is better to concentrate fire at one end of the trench for a minute or so and see what happens. If it doesn't suppress the unit in there, switch to the other end and see what happens then.

I've still only managed to do 110 successfully once. My main difficulty is getting the initial spot, which I guess is the key to the scenario. The last time I did the scenario, I moved as slowly as possible- only advancing one unit at a time for 30m or less towards cover and with the rest of the platoon providing covering fire. Even then I lost about 8 men to the enemies 1 (before auto-surrender kicked in).

Some of the later scenarios in the training are awesome, by the way. I've gone through them all pretty quickly with the intention of going back through them again at a later date. I'd advise doing the same, especially if you've been playing a while and already have some idea of what your strengths and weaknesses are.

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Here is your AAR for 315:

Set all of my daisy chain mines out in the open ground to the west of the position. These can be seen and will be avoided by German armor. I have then put AT mines on all roads leading into town. The green rifle plt. is set up on the west side of the village around where the road moves through the trees right next to the house.

An engineer plt. is backing them up on their left. The other engineer plt. is in the buildings around the intersection.

Position is facing west. My right flank is on the north side of the map and my left flank on the south side.

Contact turn 5. I can see German armor on the road.

Turn 8: German infantry is moving towards my right. German tanks are sitting in a group not moving. An AC is moving slowly towards the town on the road.

Turn 9: German AC moved up just beside the mine I have on the road. A tank has also moved up alongside the AC. German infantry seems to be going to test my defense on my right flank. I have an HMG and two engineer squads near where the lead German squad is moving.

Turn 10: The AC moved onto the mines and was killed. Surprisingly the first tank went right through both the mines and the backup infantry set to attack any armor moving through. The other tanks after seeing the AC killed and seeing the other tank attacked have set back and are firing into the buildings with my men in them.

Turn 11: Killed the tank that broke through. Infantry riding on the tanks assaulted the forward position. Two of the three squads ran into ambushes from men I had in the houses. I have my right flank HMG broken. All other troops are functional.

Turn 12: My right flank got hit with an artillery barrage. It broke both my engineer squad and HGM as well as the German infantry squad that was attacking. German tanks are not moving into the village.

Turn 13: I lost a green squad at the west road entrance. The Germans lost 2 squads ambushed on my right flank. I have moved an engineer squad up to cover the mines at the west road entrance through the trees.

Turn 14: The green rifle squad at the end of my string of mines on the right flank was broken. The Germans have a way into the position now. The green squad wasn’t killed just routed into the position. I am repositioning the HMG on the other side of the defense to take the Germans under fire as they come into the position. The engineer squad guarding the right flank road into the village (north side) was panicked by artillery fire and is routing back into the position.

Turn 15: The second German tank has entered the position.

Turn 17: One German tank is now sitting in the intersection. Another is trying to get into the position. The third one is sitting just inside my mine belt on the right flank. All German infantry that I have an LOS to is dead. Time to go tank hunting now. There are 4 engineer squads within assault distance of that tank on the intersection. He shouldn’t live through the next turn.

Turn 18: Killed two tanks and the German 50mm mortar crew. Only one tank left. The one trying to enter the position from the road to the west and the one sitting on the intersection were both knocked out. Three down, one to go.

Turn 19: Game auto surrendered. Only one tank, the 105mm FO and a single infantryman was left of the German attack force.

I had 28 casualties and 9 killed. With the surrender I won a Total Victory.

I have saved game files if anyone is intersted.

This is an excellent scenario showing that mines are best used as deterents and not killers. You use your mines to deny areas of the map to the enemy and channel him where you want him to go.

In this scenario only the AC was killed by the mine it ran over. Not a single tank ran over a mine, but in avoiding them they moved right into the kill zones I had set up for them.

As an old combat engineer I REALLY like the engineer scenarios... :D

[ December 04, 2005, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Panther Commander ]

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110

FINALLY!! What I was doing wrong is having EVERYBODY in sneak mode after crossing the fence. It doesn't matter if the HMG opens fire or not if you have at least one unit sitting up watching when he does.

I usually take the left most unit and rush the shellhole on his side. He is about the closest to one.

The HMG opens fire and the guys not sneaking return fire immediately. Even if it is only one. At least now the shooter is ID'd.

It's all downhill from there.

Hope this helps.

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PC - exactly what I wanted, but details please. Have any more detail on the anti-armor engagements?

You said the first tank moved through the ambush area without being attacked. Can you provide more detail? What infantry was near it, pioneers with demos or plain rifle with molotovs? Did they have covered arcs? How long? Did the tank enter their arcs or not? Did they target, did they throw, etc? Later you explained you took out two, one at the crossroads you said was "in assault range" of 4 squads, and other I presume on the route in around the mines. What happened in the assault? Ranges, targeting, arcs? Did the tank target any of the assaulters? How many throws? What cover did the assaulters use, what waypoints? For the one entering rather than at the crossroads, did you assault to it or did it enter covered arcs? What ranges, what lengths of movements, anybody targeted or shot by the tanks, etc?

Exact blow by blow of the infantry AT engagements, in other words.

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I'm afriad that my AAR for 315 will be a little sketchy compared to Panther Commander's (I did it a couple of days ago, so its all from memory), but here we go...

Setup: Kept most of the infantry where it was with a few exceptions

- on the left flank (looking west here, i.e. towards the German advance) I moved the platoon closer to the road and put a squad in the building by the minefield

- along the right flank, I moved my troops very slightly deeper into the woods so that they weren't as visible

- placed a MG in the house on the far right, with a cover arc just in front of the woods on his left. Basically just to stop any recon units that might wander into that area and force the engineers in there to open up

- the platoon at the back of the right flank (the one commanded by the company HQ) moved forward a few metres and swung around to the right, again to cover the approach to the woods

The idea here was to split my force into dedicated AT units and covering units. The covering unit's job was to kill any enemy infantry that got too close to the AT units so that they could remain hidden from view until the tanks arrived

Moved the mines around a bit too:

- the AT mines on the far left were moved over to the right flank. Some were placed by the treeline on the far right to prevent outflanking, others were placed just in front of my AT units, just to add a little 'oommph'

Hid all the force and gave limited covering arcs

First phase (turns 1 to 6 roughly):

- sat and waited saw the occainsional movement, mostly on the right flank

- noticed enemy infantry moving up on my right flank towards my positions

- numerous armoured units moving up the road

Second phase (initial contact):

- MG and covering units opened fire on enemy recon units before they have a chance to uncover the engineers in the trees. Enemy troops break and run for cover

- on the road, an armoured car runs parks too close to my positions and gets a satchel charge thrown inton it for its troubles. Unfortunately, this gives away the position of the troops that threw it, who promptly get shot up by the Panzers behind it and a small group of infantry in the trees nearby. My unit panics, but manages to break contact without sustaining too many casualities

Third phase (things start to hot up...):

- infantry on my right flank regroups, turns around and gets shot up by my covering units again. Unfortunately, this time, my engineers also get stuck in and expose their position to a couple of Panzers. Have to withdraw a number of units under fire to get them out of LOS of the tanks

- move troops from the back up to the right flank in case the enemy dicides to rush the position (they don't as it happens)

- a Panzer drives down the road, stright into a minefield, immobilising it. Engineers in the biulding next to the road quickly destroy it and capture the crew

- another Panzer, with infantry riding on the back of it, make its way around the minefield and cleverly managed to avoid the covering arcs of all of my troops in the area. Was heading towards the flag when the infantry passengers dismounted and got gunned down. Shortly after the tank got destroyed by troops in the buildings by the flag and the crew captured

Fourth phase (winding down):

- Enemy troops on my right flank pushed back

- 2 Panzers take up residence on my left flank on the right hand side of the road, by the trees there. Start taking potshots at my troops in the village. I send a squad of engineers in to take them out. They hide in the trees and line the shot up, only to throw molotovs at the nearest tank, giving their position away. They all die

- no further movement on either side. Enemy tanks hang around on the edge of my minefields, but advance no further. Enemy infantry is routed and runs away. My troops settle back down into defensive positions.

End: - major victory for me. Can't remember how many casualities for each side, but took out half of the enemies vehicles and almost all of their infantry. Casualities were fairly light on my side, apart from on the left flank, where I lost about 15 men. Could probably have used the mines more effectively to channel the enemy into kill zones rather than just denying them routes of advance. I took this into account on 320 though and consequently hammered the AI. 320 has been my favourite so far actually. Also, I was lucky not to have the FO used at all. Dunno what happened to him. Must have died somehow

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More 315 AARs please, with infantry-AT vs. tank engagement details.

Also, those who played it I'd love an assessment of the following. Against a human rather than the reckless AI, do you think you could win easily as the Russians? If not easily, sometimes? How much would change and why?

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No way! For a start, there is always the problem that the human player knows they're about to get ambushed and will act accordingly. I for one would pepper the whole area with HE fire before even going near

Also, I suspect that a human player would be more thorough in using the infantry for recon. A bit of careful probing here and there and I'm sure the Russian defences wouldn't stand a chance. From my experience, as soon as the defenders are exposed, they die. No two ways about it.

I reckon that a human player might well attempt to find a way around the Russian positions, although its hard to say whether this would actually work, given the number of AT mines around the place. Might just lead to a massacre

If I were playing as the Russians against a human player, the only thing I can think that might work would be to pull my troops right back out of LOS and adopt some kind of hit and run tactic, rather than taking up a position and slugging it out. Also, lots of MG fire to kill of their recon units. Probably best placed along the 'horizontal' axis of the enemies advance. I suspect once the German infantry goes down, the armour doesn't really stand a chance

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Part 2 AAR for 315:

You asked for it you got it. Although I did say YOU should write the book not me... :D

Position is facing west. My right flank is on the north side of the map and my left flank on the south side.

House #1: in the woods where the road enters the village from the west.

House #2: the next house to the east of house 1. It sits on the north side of the road.

House #3: the house just to the east of house 2. Same side of the road.

House #4: next house in the string on the north side of the road. It is the house where the woods come into the village and almost touch it.

House #5: the large house sitting in the north west corner of the intersection.

House #6: the house sitting right across the intersection from house 5. Still on the north side. It is in the northeast corner of the intersection.

House #7: this house is the one directly north of house #6.

House #8: due east of house #6.

House #9: due south of house #5. This house sits in the southwest corner of the intersection.

Rubble: this is in the southeast corner of the intersection. It is the only rubble that will come into play.

House #10: south of the rubble.

House #11: larger house east of the rubble.

Turn 10: The AC moved onto the mines and was killed. Surprisingly the first tank went right through both the mines and the backup infantry set to attack any armor moving through. The other tanks after seeing the AC killed and seeing the other tank attacked have set back and are firing into the buildings with my men in them.

House #1 has a green rifle squad hiding in it with a covered arc out to 30 meters to cover the minefield and the road on both sides of it. The tank drove around the mines on the north side and continued on it’s way. Unit in house 1 did target the tank but did not attack it. The tank then drove by green infantry in both houses 2 and 3. Also hiding and with covered arcs to defend the road. All three infantry squads came unhidden. The ones in houses 2 and 3 attacked. The target tank didn’t target anyone or fire back. It continued on to sit in front of house 4. The regular engineer in house 4 targeted the tank.

Green squad in house #1 routes to the southeast, away from the German forces.

Turn ends.

Turn 11: Killed the tank that broke through. Infantry riding on the tanks assaulted the forward position. Two of the three squads ran into ambushes from men I had in the houses. I have my right flank HMG broken. All other troops are functional.

Engineer squads in both houses 5 & 9 target the tank. They both throw satchel charges at it. The squad in house 9 is credited with the kill. Crew did not get out. The tank had targeted an engineer squad about 90 meters to it’s south. House 5 is 20 meters from the tank’s location. House 9 is 24 meters from the tank. Both engineers had covered arc’s that included the tanks location when it moved there.

Turn 12: My right flank got hit with an artillery barrage. It broke both my engineer squad and HGM as well as the German infantry squad that was attacking. German tanks are not moving into the village.

The other 3 tanks are firing at my infantry that came unhidden to attack the tank. I immediately put everybody back on hide. The green infantry squad in house 2 has panicked due to the tank fire.

Turn 13: I lost a green squad at the west road entrance. The Germans lost 2 squads ambushed on my right flank. I have moved an engineer squad up to cover the mines at the west road entrance through the trees.

The panicked squad breaks into the open and is killed. However, I sneak an engineer squad into the woods immediately to the south of house #1. The engineer squad doesn’t move into the house, but, uses it to block LOS to the location of the tanks on the far side. He goes into hide with a covered arc out to 30 meters that covers the road with the mines in it.

Turn 14: The green rifle squad at the end of my string of mines on the right flank was broken. The Germans have a way into the position now. The green squad wasn’t killed just routed into the position. I am repositioning the HMG on the other side of the defense to take the Germans under fire as they come into the position. The engineer squad guarding the right flank road into the village (north side) was panicked by artillery fire and is routing back into the position.

The green squad panicking next to the minefield will allow German armor the ability to move into the village unopposed at the moment. Two German tanks had targeted the squad. I didn’t know until they opened fire on him that they had spotted him. He had been in a firefight with German infantry and I wasn’t thinking about the tanks intervening in this fight. DUH!!

Turn 15: The second German tank has entered the position.

The tank drove down the front of my mines straight to the opening in the minefield and crossed into the village. The gap in the minefield is 40 meters from house #3.

The tank moves into the minefield and just sits there. It has targeted the broken green squad on the other side of the map.

Turn 16: The second German tank has entered the position.

The tank moves forward so that the west edge of the vehicle lines up with the east edge of house #3. It stops 27 meters from the house. So far the green squad and leader have not

targeted the tank. I give them both attack orders and change their covered arcs to include the possible movement route of the tank if it should decide to come further into the position.

I sneaked the engineer squad in the woods by house #1 into house #1 just in case. Gave him a hide command and a 30 meter covered arc to cover the mines and the road.

Turn 17: One German tank is now sitting in the intersection. Another is trying to get into the position. The third one is sitting just inside my mine belt on the right flank. All German infantry that I have an LOS to is dead. Time to go tank hunting now. There are 4 engineer squads within assault distance of that tank on the intersection. He shouldn’t live through the next turn.

The German tank moves around the position in house #3. The squad throws a molotov cocktail at it but misses. The Plt. Leader gets a Top Hit but it was not damaging. The tank then drives on past them and onto the road. It follows the road east and stops right in the middle of the intersection. It doesn’t target anyone or anything. Distance to the intersection from house #5 is 30 meters, house #6 is 28 meters and house #9 is 26 meters. There is also an engineer squad in house #10 that is 44 meters from the tank. All have the tank under covered arc.

The last German tank has decided to try to move by house 1.

Neither tank targets any of the engineer squads. All of the engineer squads that are in range target the nearest tank. The engineer squad in house #10 I give run orders to for the rubble next to the tank. Also with a covered arc.

Hit the “GO” button and two German tanks go up in flames. The engineer squad at house #1 blows the tank to pieces! Large fireball as the satchel charge takes it out.

Turn 18: Killed two tanks and the German 50mm mortar crew. Only one tank left. The one trying to enter the position from the road to the west and the one sitting on the intersection were both knocked out. Three down, one to go.

All of the engineer squads near the tank in the intersection throw satchel charges. The tank doesn’t blow up but is killed outright. Once again the engineer squad in building #9 gets the credit for it.

Turn 19: Game auto surrendered. Only one tank and a single infantryman was left of the German attack force.

Conclusions:

Could you win as easily against a human? Yes, this defense will not be broken by this force. It would win every time!

What would I change?

 I would make one of the squads of engineers green,

 Or add a German assault gun with 150mm gun.

 Or take away all but about 5 of the mines. You don’t need them for this fight. Block the main open area to the west of the village with mines. Cover the roads through the trees with ambush sites and back them up with solid control of the intersection from multiple points and you will still win this fight most of the time vs the AI.

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For anyone who's been reading my posts about the quirks in 110, I think I've discovered why the MG isn't firing at range when you play the AI: it's because the MG is facing the wrong direction! He thinks that the Russians are coming from the west and he's facing that way. He doesn't even spot your guys until they get within 200m.

The fix is to use the scenario editor to change the side ownership so that the MG knows the Russians are coming from the east. Then, of course, if you still want to play this scenario, you have to give the Russians at lot more time. At least 30 turns. Of course, if you give the Russians too much time, they can't lose (assuming that one follows Jason's excellent advice on how to manage your green troops). The only hope the MG has is that the clock runs out before his ammo does.

By the way, I think this side ownership problem is also a factor in the quirks in 102, which causes the StuG to start out facing the wrong direction.

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