AFTER CMAK??? WAHT NEXT?

[strangeway]

I find it funny that people skipped straight to the Middle east as a desired theatre for a CM game down the road. Now, personally I think that conflict is just a little too technologically lopsided to hold much interest for me.

The pacific theatre would have been cool, but if they've ruled that out, what about Korea? Or, if you want to get really crazy, what about WWI? That would probably be the easiest conversion as there still wouldn't be a need to develop extra code to simulate airborne warfare (like you would if you went the way of Vietnam say...) You could still have all the cool stuff like tanks and artillery.

Just so long as you could come up with scenarios more interesting than just two sides beating the tar out of each other with arty.

Lots of possibilities! The mind reels at the thought of it!

Great job to everyone at Battlefront!

[Saedor]

the BFC team has stated that they have little to no interest in the Pacific.

Well, that's really very sad. I only recently learned about the CM games, and have really come to love them. I've been a wargamer for 25+ years, starting with board games, then evolving to miniatures games, but there have been so few good computer wargames. Especially now, the emphasis is on 1st person shooters and RTS, neither of which is a true wargame. CM games broke the computer wargame mold for me. They harken back to SSI's great wargames from the '80's like Kampfgruppe, Typhoon of Steel and Overrun.

To have such a great game system (and an even better one in the works) and not use it to cover a full half of the worlds most important conflict for no better reason than "they have little intrest", is very sad indeed.

[dugfromthearth]

[To have such a great game system (and an even better one in the works) and not use it to cover a full half of the worlds most important conflict for no better reason than "they have little intrest", is very sad indeed.]

The thing is that the reason it is a great system is because the devs are working on something in which they have tremendous interest.

Even if you could order them to do a Pacific War version, if they have little interest in it, they probably won't do the same high quality job they've done with the first three.

In short, the devs have come up with a fantastic game. I would rather trust them to keep coming up with great games, then to try and get them to produce the game I wanted and not the game they wanted and hope that it was still great.

[Saedor]

True enough. Nevertheless, it's sad.

[Moon]

Originally posted by ASHBERY76:

Did you think the IL2 terrain was poor?, because it uses the same model.

Not poor at all - for a flight sim.

Now don't get me wrong, I think WC will be a very successful game. We have had some loose contact with the IL-2 development team in the past and these guys are great. Matt spends more time playing IL-2 than CM and if I wouldn't have such a lousy eye to hand coordination I would too, I guess

I am convinced that this will be a great game overall, with a different focus than CM. But at the same time I am just voicing my honest opinion that those shots, while nice, do not totally knock me off my feet. Now I am somebody who does not automatically start to drool when he hears catchwords like pixel shading or something - I personally have no clue what this all is, and I don't care about it, as long as the end product looks good. That's why the WC shots sometimes leave me scratching my head. I realize I might be in the minority here, but that's exactly why I'm posting

And to get this back on topic - one thing I do know, with whatever comes after CMAK we will continue to stay true to our principles, i.e. not chase after tech features just because, but pay attention to the overall result.

Visuals that are not supported by the appropriate underlying simulation effects are, to me, worth only half as much; and to automatically get drolling over pixel shading when the result simply does not look realistic seems to defeat its purpose.

(Just to clarify: I am not saying that this is or will be true with WC by the way, like most of you I haven't seen more than screens and some videos so far. Knowing what they did with IL-2 I actually think that the game will be fairly detailed. The last paragraph is just a general statement)

Martin

[30ot6]

the BFC team has stated that they have little to no interest in the Pacific.

One of them recently said that they are now more open to other possibilities, maybe Matt? This was specifically in the context of whether BFC would do a Pacific game. He didn't say they would; he just said that they could. As though they might be considering it. Very vague, but it leaves one hopeful.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by 30ot6:

...the ever present mist drives me crazy.

I suspect that the effect they were trying to achieve is the sense of distance that haze creates, but they went too far and exaggerated it to the point where it looks like a stage 3 smog alert. This could also be contributing to the washed-out look of the colors. Maybe if that effect is toned down, you'll get more contrast in the scene.

BTW, looking at the pics to try to see what it is that Moon finds "cartoonish" I notice the shape of the trees seems somehow to contribute to that effect. The trees in CM, especially in the later two games, were carefully modeled and look like something I would actually come across in the forest. But these trees in WC (what the hell do those letters stand for anyway?) look instead like something in an illustration. They are idealized and somehow stereotyped.

They really do nice grass though.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Halberdiers:

Anybody else notice how they got the backblast coming out the wrong end of the tube? If that's supposed to be a Panzerschreck, it looks king of funny, like the front end is too short and stubby. If it's supposed to be a Panzerfaust, he's holding it wrong. All the pics I've seen show the firer with it tucked under his arm and holding it at a pretty high angle. Apparently it flew slowly and had a high, arcing trajectory.

Michael

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by Saedor:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> the BFC team has stated that they have little to no interest in the Pacific.

Well, that's really very sad. I only recently learned about the CM games, and have really come to love them. I've been a wargamer for 25+ years, starting with board games, then evolving to miniatures games, but there have been so few good computer wargames. Especially now, the emphasis is on 1st person shooters and RTS, neither of which is a true wargame. CM games broke the computer wargame mold for me. They harken back to SSI's great wargames from the '80's like Kampfgruppe, Typhoon of Steel and Overrun.

To have such a great game system (and an even better one in the works) and not use it to cover a full half of the worlds most important conflict for no better reason than "they have little intrest", is very sad indeed. </font>

[Halberdiers]

Anybody else notice how they got the backblast coming out the wrong end of the tube? If that's supposed to be a Panzerschreck, it looks king of funny, like the front end is too short and stubby. If it's supposed to be a Panzerfaust, he's holding it wrong. All the pics I've seen show the firer with it tucked under his arm and holding it at a pretty high angle. Apparently it flew slowly and had a high, arcing trajectory.

Michael

But Michael , maybe it isn't a "Panzerfaust" or a "Panzerschreck". Maybe it is a "Faustpatrone". In any case the fact that it is under his arm it is not relevant.

Most important is the fact that we do not see in the picture an explosion blast of three meters behind the tube that can damage the soldiers behind. I think.

And that not change that we must to expect a better infantry animation in CM-X2. At the same high level of the great mechanism of this game : CM.

Regards

[ January 04, 2004, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Halberdiers ]

[Pzman]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

Anybody else notice how they got the backblast coming out the wrong end of the tube? If that's supposed to be a Panzerschreck, it looks king of funny, like the front end is too short and stubby. If it's supposed to be a Panzerfaust, he's holding it wrong. All the pics I've seen show the firer with it tucked under his arm and holding it at a pretty high angle. Apparently it flew slowly and had a high, arcing trajectory.

Michael

It may well be a Panzerfaust. Its far to small to be a Panzerschrek, which is about the slightly taller in length than a man who is five foot eight, standing up. I know this only because I made a replica in my high school metal work ship based on research from Panzerschrek.com. As for the backblast, that would only last a short time, and what they are showing would still be bogus in that case.

[Schoerner]

When i saw my first pics of WC half a year ago, i was really fascinated.

But after some months, i looked much more critically at the pics.

1. There's a reason, why they hide their trees in the smog... - Emrys is right

2. Haze and lighning effects add a lot to the atmosphere - subtract it and you land even behind CMBO - or imagine CMBB/CMAK with some haze and dynamic lightning effects (shadows on vehicles) and it would easily take the lead

3. I can't describe it, but somehow the WC graphics are losing their attraction quite fast - while CM - in a magical way - keeps it. We only can hope, the new engine will have that magic touch, too.

4. Taking a critcal look at the demo-pics of WC, shows it's not a sim with as much as possible historical accuracy - again tank duels within a few meters; i'm really sick of that childish games. Too many games look fantastic at the first sight, but the longer you play, the more they lose. CM does not. But i have no clue why.

btw: and i'm in no way interested in the pacific-theater or post WWII warfare

[Publius Cornelius Patton]

I'd love to see a modern-day CM, or play some Cold War hypothetical battles. But a revamped WWII Western Front would be nice as well.

One thing I thought of- what about the possiblity to make your own "units" with the weapons and such. Like a custom US infantry squad with bazooka joe in it?

Something I would also like is the possibility of have a "General" unit. Either on foot or in a tank, the "General" unit would represent a general perosnally leading his troops into battle. It could also represent important historical personas (i.e. Hitler for a what-if battle at the Reich Chancellery in Berlin) and would have the John Wayne effect* for nearby units.

Also, CM-X2 (or CMX, whatever you call it) should be able to play on a 5000Mhz computer (cause that's how fast my iMac runs )

Just some ideas.

God bless,

Publius Cornelius Patton

*A term I coined for when a single unit, out of contact with its normal unit commander, "changes" its "loyalty" to the nearest HQ unit. I call it the "John Wayne effect" due to a scene in the movie The Longest Day, where an US paratrooper replies to John Wayn'es character, who's a battalion commander in the 82nd Airborne, that he (the paratrooper, not John Wayne) is in the 101st, and John relpies, "Well, you're in the 82nd now."

[undead reindeer cavalry]

infantry needs a lot of reworking.

at the moment small realistic battles really suffer because the infantry is such an abstract amoeba-like mass. infantry squads feel like a group of chimps running amok.

please focus on infantry.

[Alfatwosix]

I would like to see some '39 - '40 action.

Kind of the first scenarios from Panzer Generaal. Action in Poland, Norway, The Low countries, France... maybe some '41 Balkans action (Greece, Yugoslavia...)

Could be CM "First shots"

[jep]

I hope following:

1)

It should be easier to find opponent and play multiplayer battle. I would vote a internet server allowing to play instantly.

2)

I sincerely hope there will be option to play a campaign game. Actually it doesnt need to be a realistic one. Something like close combat 5, should be good enougth. Iam frustrated with totalwar serie as it begins to be bored to play single battles.

Furthermore: Combatmission series models invidual weapons excellently but until decent campaign game, game can't be realistic. If it were, allied had never be able to win the war.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Halberdiers:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Anybody else notice how they got the backblast coming out the wrong end of the tube?

Michael

Most important is the fact that we do not see in the picture an explosion blast of three meters behind the tube that can damage the soldiers behind. I think.</font>

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Panzerman:

It may well be a Panzerfaust. Its far to small to be a Panzerschrek...

That's my thought as well. And as I mentioned, the part extending in front of his shoulder is much shorter than the part extending behind, and that is characteristic of the PzFaust. Also, it looks too skinny to be a PzSchreck.

As for the backblast, that would only last a short time, and what they are showing would still be bogus in that case.

But since the projectile has only traveled a short distance, presumably only a short time has elapsed.

Michael

[lt_gouws]

How about you guys tell me what WC stands for?

[Alfatwosix]

WC stands for "Water Closet"

[lt_gouws]

Bloody hell just answer my question.

[Dawg Bonz]

Moon / Martin "… And to get this back on topic - one thing I do know, with whatever comes after CMAK we will continue to stay true to our principles, i.e. not chase after tech features just because, but pay attention to the overall result. Visuals that are not supported by the appropriate underlying simulation effects are, to me, worth only half as much; and to automatically get drolling over pixel shading when the result simply does not look realistic seems to defeat its purpose."

Bingo! Well said Moon.

Impressive tech features just because… Any time the instrument of vision anatomy gets whacked with a cluster thump of stimulant, you will get a physiological jolt. Kinda like "eye espresso" a reliable cranial commodity with a healthy market share. I have seen an uber Mac playing an uber RTS game and these nerve filament acrobatics are very impressive. IMO, the post ocular "attention to the overall result." method of CM is a more sustained, enduring delivery of brain pharmaceutical.

There is definitely room on most ‘home entertainment’ HDs for all three CM titles and the latest optical sweetmeat, be it a RTS / Flight Simulator / Fantasy Quest, etc. If the "What Next" from CM maintains the "attention to the overall result" standards Moon brought up, you can put it in just about any time frame and have an engaging, realistic and successful gaming experience. I would think the improved & enhanced CM engine revisiting the current BO/BB & AK campaigns of would even sell well.

What’s Next? What I would like is a Mac OSX CM-X2 that has modular theatres, plug in Viet Nam, Iraq, AK, etc., maybe some multi player WE GO / TCP/IP options, and a kick lass Uber Editor Plus. Heck I get a jolt just designing maps for my solo games Vs AI. AI often beats me so what the heck do I know. CM is fun and sure beats work.

Visuals supported by appropriate underlying simulation effects and realistic looking graphic results accurately describes my experience of the CM games as well.

Cheers,

[Moon]

OS X compatibility is tops on the list. CM's engine was "born" on the Mac, so the situation is tragi-comical really. We want those Mac gamers back...

Martin

[Michael Emrys]

Right! Billions and billions of game-hungry Mac owners urgently await the opportunity to empty their wallets in BFC's general direction. Don't disappoint them!

Michael

[dugfromthearth]

have any of you played Age of Rifles?

The game itself was flawed but fun. But what really set it apart was unit creation which was insanely great.

You set the number of troops in a unit and the number of weapons. So you could have 143 men, equipped with 12 spears, 47 pistols, 10 muskets, 13 rifles, and the rest unarmed if you wanted to be so bizarre. It seems ideal for designing WWII era squads where you could have some smg's, lmg's, and rifles.

Then you designed their look. You chose their heads, upper body, lower body, boots, and skin color.

So you could creat black troops for U.S. Buffalo Soldiers, or Zulu warriors, Prussian infantry or hussars, etc.

It would be fantastic to see such a thing for CM. To be able to create your own little armies and have fights between imaginary Balkan states, etc.