What's wrong here?

[Der Kuenstler]

I'm playing a scenario on extreme FOW. I approach a church by a victory flag - I'm almost positive there are Russians in there. So I hit the church with a full minute of HE from 3 Pumas and also fire at it a full minute with a flamethrower vehicle. No sign of life at all. Next turn I start to "advance" my platoon into the church from some nearby woods and they all get chewed up by a healthy Russian squad inside - everyone up and firing - no one even pinned. I thought everyone was supposed to break and run from flames. What went wrong?

[Kingfish]

Could have been a squad in command range of a HQ with +2 morale bonus. In any event, if you are going to douse the church with flames why bother sending in a squad anyway?

[Vixen]

Maybe there was more than one squad? Or maybe he snuck an extra one in on the same turn you entered?

[Zalgiris 1410]

Interesting conumdrum, may be the enemy squad was sheltered deep in the building or at the far corner, BTW I would now waite for the Church to burn and collapse before sending what's left of your infatry platoon over the rubble.

[Der Kuenstler]

Oops I meant platoon - there was a platoon in there. All up and firing. I wanted to go in for the same reasons he was in there - a heavy building near a victory objective.

[Zalgiris 1410]

Hmmm, I hope that you are playing against a human opponent and you can ask him later to find the definate answer so to enlighten us all, best of luck.

[GRUMLIN]

I'm seen units in on-fire buildings unaffected before, sitting there happily and watching the world go by. I've also seen units broken by being in a house that catches fire. Don;t know what triggers the differnce...

But sound like you did all the right stuff and just got unlucky.

Although i always blow the whole building up just to be sure

Grum

[Der Kuenstler]

Yeah I didn't want to use up that much ammo bringing down a possibly empty building - should have sent a 1/2 squad in there to look.

[roqf77]

or moved your puma's with the platoon. that way theyd put down suppressing fire on the enemy troops when they popped up.

[Aco4bn187inf]

I just did a test with a full regular platoon hiding in the top floor of a heavy building (I forgot you wrote it was a church) and attacked the building with area fire from a flamethrower.

The squads in the back corners of the building were totally unaffected by the attack, didn't even get alerted. (The squads in the front of the building and the platoon CP in the middle unhid themselves and displayed all sorts of anxiety and agression.)

So this admittedly casual experiment suggests that a platoon could be hidden in the back corners of a church and not even break a sweat, as far as a flamethrower attack from the front side goes.

Didn't test for the Puma but unless it was getting a targeting line real far into the building, the 50mm shells probably wouldn't disturb units in the far side of it.

You might have succeeded in getting a foothold on the building if you'd sent only one or two squads just a couple meters into the side of the building you were no doubt sucessfully supressing.

[Holien]

Ultimately 1 minute is not enough. (As in real Life for HE / MG fire)

Did you spread the locations throughout the building? I.e. four different spots?

Also bear in mind that the building is a representation of a real building and flames gooing through one window will only hurt those in the room that the window opens into. Internal walls do a great job of stopping flames. No houses I know will go up in flame after 1 minute. Especially stone built buildings.

I have had the same problems and it is real fun when your German squads are mown down with SMG fire.

H

[MikeyD]

Also, if you are playing extreme FOW perhaps that 'full-up squad' shooting away is in reality a supressed and reduced team firing the last of their depleted ammo! On more than one occassion I've spent valuable final turns battling a Rambo-like enemy squad, only to find at game's end that they had been close to completely broken all along. But they STILL managed to hold up my advance! :mad:

[Der Kuenstler]

Wow - thanks for the expirement and comments - turns out I was basically firing at the front 1/4 of the building - I wasn't aware that CM models sections of larger buildings - I thought that whatever hit one part of the building affected all the building. Interesting - I'll have to be more vigilant with my target lines in the future.

Extreme FOW is much harder, too. Once I entered a church with a full platoon and sat for a couple of minutes with nothing happening. I then sent them out the back and was fired on from behind by an enemy squad that was in the church upstairs the whole time.

[London Calling]

Originally posted by Der Kuenstler:

Extreme FOW is much harder, too. Once I entered a church with a full platoon and sat for a couple of minutes with nothing happening. I then sent them out the back and was fired on from behind by an enemy squad that was in the church upstairs the whole time.

The worst thing is when you *know* there's some enemy *somewhere* in the church (you hear shots + see your men going prone) but you can't 'spot' them, at least for a few minutes. Once lost a couple of men this way to a pesky forward observer! :mad:

[roqf77]

extreme fow is cool though. its easier for you to sneak about too!

[michael_wittman44]

I'm seen units in on-fire buildings unaffected before, sitting there happily and watching the world go by. I've also seen units broken by being in a house that catches fire. Don;t know what triggers the differnce...

But sound like you did all the right stuff and just got unlucky.

Although i always blow the whole building up just to be sure

I guess its how close the flames are to them and if there are other factors such as 88mm shells smacking into walls inches from their heads I think like it has been said before a fresh platoon was waiting just outside away from the flames and out of sight of you and moved when you did. I guess next time surround the house and have different units covering different areas of the house to suppress units from all sides in the building. If you have several mortars capable of firing smoke perhaps use smoke near the house just before entering.

[Joachim]

Check if the setting allows for sewer movement. It is a nice trick to order your units to move into the cellar (aka move them 5 m with the sewer movement command) and have them reappear 2 minutes later - totally unharmed of any fire that entered the building.

Gruß

Joachim

[michael_wittman44]

I've never used sewer move. What do you do??

[imported_KG_ThorsHammer]

A church for example is a heavy stone building. The flamethrower would have a hard time penetrating any distance inside, and 50mmHE would also do little damage.

As for sewers, its all in the manual, but basically, if sewer movement is enabled, units can go from one heavy tall building to another. They must be of decent skill level to do this, and the time it takes is usually pretty long and variable; they could also get lost or even die trying.

[michael_wittman44]

Thanks KG.