Oddball_E8 Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 I just realized that all the models of panthers (A,D,G) have bow machineguns... i was under the impression that the model D only had coax... am i wrongfuly informed? :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 If you are, then I am too. :confused: Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 Perhaps its a graphics thing? Didn’t have enough room to include a special glacis plate for the D variant so all Panthers look the same but the D doesn’t have one for fire-power purposes? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinzBaby Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 'D' had a rectangular hatched slot for a bow Mg to poke throu with drivers vision port on the lefthand side. 'A' had a ball Mg and drivers vision port, and the 'G' only the ball Mg with drivers rotating periscope on the hull roof, leaving a 'clean' hull glacis plate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted July 29, 2003 Author Share Posted July 29, 2003 Im not talking about the graphical representation here... in the unit info it sais bow,coax on all the panthers... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 All Panthers had bow mgs. On the initial D model they used a 'letterbox' opening -- literally a plug that opened up and you shoved a mg through! Perhaps you're mistaking the bow mg for the bow driver's shutter (or whatever its called) which did disappear on later variants. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 Hi, I've got a copy of Jentz' "Germany's Panther Tank". Looking at the Panther D in all its minutiae, indeed, it had a bow MG34. Although, it wasn't a fixed mount. It had a "Letterbox" opening. An open port in the glacis. The radio operator, who sat at the right front corner of the hull, had a rectangular opening in the glacis. It appears to be about 6" wide by about 12" tall. Those are VERY rough approximations derived by scaling it to personnel near the opening in various pictures. The opening is hinged on the top and swings up and out. The radio operator was expected to manually position his MG34 through this opening and use it. There is NO indication that, amongst the MANY production changes introduced, the bow MG port was ever modified or deleted in any of the 842 Panther D produced. Initial Ausf. A production (which followed Ausf. D - go figure!) used the same drawings for the chassis. The main improvements were turret-based. It wasn't until late Novermber/early December 1943 that the ball mount (Kugleblende) for the hull machinegun was introduced. Looking through the production tables, 2,200 total Ausf A. were produced. Of that, about 520 were produced PRIOR to the Kugelblende being introduced. (That's a rough estimate.) Therefore, about 1,700 of the 2,200 Ausf A had the ball mount. The rest were produced with the Ausf. D "letterbox" machinegun port. Just for the sake of completeness, the Ausf. G basically kept the Ausf. A turret but made many chassis modifications. It retained the ball mount. Total production of Ausf. G seems to be 2,953 vehicles. So, initially the Ausf. D came along. They decided to modify the turret and called it the Ausf. A. Then they decided the new turret design was good, but they needed to modify the hull, presto!, along came the Ausf. G. Regards, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinzBaby Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 aahh.. come to think of it, I've not yet come across any pics with the Mg poking out of the 'letterbox' in the 'D' models... must of been a pain in the a$$ manhandling that from a stowage rack to the gunport.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted July 29, 2003 Author Share Posted July 29, 2003 Ok... now i understand why most of the sources i have seen state that the panther D didnt have a bow mg... it didnt it just had a hole in the armor to shoot a "loose" mg through... but i guess in the game it should count as a bow mg... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 It didn't have a mg ball mount, I'll give ya that! I was surprised by c3k's statement reminding us there were only 842 Panthers produced. What a tiny number. Hell, I believe between CMBO and CMBB I must've blowed-up 2/3rds of them myself! I guess I'll use the Italian campaign in CMAK to blow-up the remaining third 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 MikeyD, Thanks for the comment. However, the 842 only referred to the Panther D variant. I put all the production numbers for each of the D, A, and G in different parts of my post. The total Panther production figures come to about 6,000. Of course, I've managed to lead about twice that number to their destruction! Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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