HarryInk Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Well, last time I asked about maps, I got brilliant replies. It just encourages me to ask again! I'm reading Paul Adair's Hitler's Greatest Defeat: The collapse of Army Group Centre at the moment. The maps are figurative rather than enjoyable. I've done a little poking about on the net for Belorus maps, but can anyone on this forum suggest any good net (or other) sources for topographical quality(-ish) maps for the areas around Vitebsk... Minsk... Bobruisk... Mogilev? I know there's some ace Ukraine maps, but anyone aware of any for the central area of the front? Thanks in anticipation.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Paulus Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 I asked for those maps too. They seem to be very rare on the internet. I just found a satellite photo of Vitebsk Here It could be useful for the fights around and in the city. Hope it helps Paulus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryInk Posted July 6, 2003 Author Share Posted July 6, 2003 Thanks muchly, Von Paulus. I've just finished Adair. Frustrating book. Very interesting event glossed over by others...Alan Clark in Barbarossa gives it barely a page and subsumes it in a discussion of the 20 July assassination plot on Hitler. *sigh* And given that it's a greater defeat than Stalingrad, this seems trite. A symptom, i suppose of anglophone's reliance on German records produced for the US army postwar. Ultimately, I didn't think Adair managed the narrative at all well. The event became fractured and barely coherent. Perhaps that's what a rout is supposed to read like?! Still, it was a good introduction to a crucial moment on the Eastern Front. There are heaps of interesting fights/scenarios here: partisans seizing bridges and holding out until relief arrives; the 5th Panzer vs. 5th Tank army; the 12th panzers Divisions desperate series of holding actions that allowed over 12,000 German troops to flee to safety; Russian 'reconnaisance in force' battles, and plenty of MEs as deep penetration columns chase retreating germans through the Byelorussian forests and swamps... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevsharr Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Try "East Front Drama-1944"by Rolf Hinze it's available from JJ.fedorowicz Press.They specialize in translation's of german book's.I have not completly read the above book but it is very detailed but unfortunatly like most wwII book's suffer's from a lack of map's.It is very frustrating to see a name of a village that seem's to be important in the narrative but not be able to locate it in relation to the overall situation.The "History of The Leibstandarte"published by the same publisher as above is a five volume set that is a difficult read because of the immense amount of detail,almost daily activities are recorded.These book's are the exception to the above complaint because they have seperate map book's in color no less. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Paulus Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 There are heaps of interesting fights/scenarios here: partisans seizing bridges and holding out until relief arrives; the 5th Panzer vs. 5th Tank army; the 12th panzers Divisions desperate series of holding actions that allowed over 12,000 German troops to flee to safety; Russian 'reconnaisance in force' battles, and plenty of MEs as deep penetration columns chase retreating germans through the Byelorussian forests and swamps... However you can still look at a good atlas and create a map who represent less or more the battle you're telling about. I worked on a map with today's satellite photos of NASA site. I forgot the link but I'll try to find it. Paulus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Paulus Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Try "East Front Drama-1944"by Rolf Hinze it's available from JJ.fedorowicz I was interested in buying this book but the price is too high for me ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tecumseh Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 For reading Erickson's map-free books I relied on printouts from that excellent online military atlas (at www.dean.usma.edu) and some laser-copies of 1:2.5M soviet maps from the library's Times Comprehensive atlas. Together they folded up into a useful bookmark, and all for free I also got from the library the Osprey Campaign Series #42 BAGRATION, which looks a bit like a kids book (ie. you'll want to hide it under some big sophisticated novels when approaching the pretty librarian) but it's packed full of photos, maps (incl 3D ones) and a decent text by S. Zaloga. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Originally posted by HarryInk: Well, last time I asked about maps, I got brilliant replies. It just encourages me to ask again! I'm reading Paul Adair's Hitler's Greatest Defeat: The collapse of Army Group Centre at the moment. The maps are figurative rather than enjoyable. I've done a little poking about on the net for Belorus maps, but can anyone on this forum suggest any good net (or other) sources for topographical quality(-ish) maps for the areas around Vitebsk... Minsk... Bobruisk... Mogilev? I know there's some ace Ukraine maps, but anyone aware of any for the central area of the front? Thanks in anticipation.... Sounds like grids: N-36-25; N-35-67,68,78,79; N-35-106,107; N-36-61,73. Hmm... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryInk Posted July 8, 2003 Author Share Posted July 8, 2003 Tecumseh...have you got a tighter ref for that military atlas? And thanks also for the Osprey ref. I'll cruise the local military bookshops and see what I can find... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tecumseh Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Originally posted by HarryInk: Tecumseh...have you got a tighter ref for that military atlas?The military atlas link has been posted a lot: http://www.dean.usma.edu/history/dhistorymaps/Atlas%20Page.htm Not much detail for EF, but still helpful while reading. Also there are additional grids from the EART/x-ussr maps, beyond the ukraine/caucasus ones that are more commonly known. Below are some links, plus Herr Oberst hints he knows more... http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/EART/x-ussr/100k/ http://mapy.mk.cvut.cz/data/Rusko-Russia/Topo%201_100%20000/East%20Russia/ http://mapy.mk.cvut.cz/data/Rusko-Russia/ The lower the letter of the alphabet, the further north the grid is. The higher the number, the further east. Finally, Herr Oberst has personally scanned some great maps. They are generously available for FTP - check out his recent thread on maps for scenario designers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNac Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Wow, that's great thanks for the links. There is any place where I can find a reference map to know where belongs each of those grid references? It's a bit diffcult to go just by "The lower the letter of the alphabet, the further north the grid is. The higher the number, the further east. " Many thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tecumseh Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Originally posted by KNac: Wow, that's great thanks for the links. There is any place where I can find a reference map to know where belongs each of those grid references? It's a bit diffcult to go just by "The lower the letter of the alphabet, the further north the grid is. The higher the number, the further east. " Many thanks! There's a key for the ukraine/caucasus set here http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/EART/x-ussr/ukraine.html For others, use these: http://mapy.mk.cvut.cz/data/Rusko-Russia/Blank-ost.jpg http://mapy.mk.cvut.cz/data/Rusko-Russia/Blank-west.jpg [ July 09, 2003, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: tecumseh ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 [/qb]Sounds like grids: N-36-25; N-35-67,68,78,79; N-35-106,107; N-36-61,73. Hmm... [/QB] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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