Sounds from unseen units?

[Der Kuenstler]

In the CMBB manual on P.190 it says "make sure you position your camera over the enemy once in a while - you can get invaluable information (...sounds from enemy units if not seen, etc.)"

Does anyone know what this is talking about? The tests I've done show that you don't hear a tank until you see it, unless you already have a "sound contact" icon out there, and in that case, why bother putting the camera over there to listen?

[Sergei]

I recall there was such a 'feature' in early versions of CMBO, but it was patched.

[Philippe]

If you put your camera over enemy lines and you hear someone yell "Keine muni!", you've just learned something useful whether you can see him or not. If you're deep behind your own lines in view five I doubt that you will hear that.

[TotenkopfZZ]

I use this "feature" all the time. On extreme fog of war settings it allows me to determine which one of the infantry? ID's is actually that nasty MG42 or AT Rifle and pour HE on it before it ruins my troops day. Otherwise all the infatry? sound ID's look the same until you actually accurately ID them.

[Sergei]

Ah yeah, hearing what spotted enemy units are saying... yep, that's useful.

[junk2drive]

I play with all sounds off. Ultimate FOW.

[Philippe]

Another tell-tale sound that I've heard is the sickening screech of a tank getting imobilized after it throws a tread (aka bogging). And you know its one of his because you don't have any tanks...

[Brent Pollock]

I do have a problem with the ease with which I can pick up enemy sound info in CM. It seems to me that you can get details at unrealistic ranges...say, 0.5 km plus...in the middle of a firefight...yet I can have trouble understanding what my kids are yelling at me from somewhere in the house if I have the watertap running?!

[Philippe]

Hearing someone scream "Sani!" or "Keine muni!" in the middle of a battle may require exceptionally sharp ears in reality, but if your life depended on hearing your kids over the watertap, you'd probably not only hear them, but identify the watertap and how far open the valve was. On the other hand, cybersoldiers probably don't suffer from age and earwax.

I've thought of another example of cue-less sounds that seem pretty convincing. You play a large scenario where the front lines are just starting to make contact. The problem is, the front is at least a kilometer long. Some shots ring out -- you know that somewhere, someone on their side is taking a few preliminary potshots at someone on your side. And because you hear the clack-clack-clack of a Maxim gun, you're pretty sure that if you could only figure out which part of your front is getting pasted, you could probably see the puffs of dirt as the bullets hit the ground. But where to look? So you replay it a few times from above his line until the gun sounds the loudest, and then replay it again at level one in the part of your line that was closest to this. And sure enough, that squad over there is tip-toeing nonchalantly through a fusilade.

Your guys knew they were getting machine gunned. They heard it, they saw it, but they just got lucky and never felt it. You the player have no way of figuring out what they know (that someone is shooting at them), unless you eavesdrop on the enemy to figure out what part of your line to finetooth comb at level one.

So I'm not really disturbed by the need to listen in on the enemy.

Actually, one of my many regrets about the CM games is that the weapons sounds aren't unique enough. It has always bugged me that German rifle fire sounds like French rifle fire sounds like Russian, etc. In real life each weapon is sort of like a musical instrument, and if you know the sound, you can figure out that someone is firing an MP40 in that clump of trees over their. Which side he's on is another matter ... so be careful about using enemy weapons lest you attract friendly fire.

[Brent Pollock]

...and there doesn't seem to be any accounting for muffling or sound reflection.

For instance, next time you're in a built-up area, take notice of how the sound appears to come from the direction of the nearest reflector or open window. I live near the airport, so I experience this one quite a bit; a jet can be out of LOS, and even though I know it is supposed to be on the regular approach path to the east, it can sound as if it is coming from the west as the sound bounces off the buildings.

If you're in a heavily wooded area, or in fog/snow, the sound will get muffled. Wind speed and direction should also have an effect. I'd put these higher on my CMX2 wishlist than tracking the movement of the sun/moon throughout the battle.

[turn rant mode off]

[Zalgiris 1410]

Intersting Brent I also live near a major airport but only under some of its flight paths when the wind changes and actually near a small plane airfield as well. If a jet is anywhere close enough over head I can't hear the sound from the TV or radio or even from somebody talking in the same room but fortunately only occationally and for just a few seconds. I'm used to it but I'm up from a ravine (creek) and its fairly flat with mostly one story houses around mine of two and before looking up I can hear where the plane and jet sounds are coming from and going to except when they are directly over head but still I think your point about unseen heard sounds for CMx2 could better be dealt with if you consider how hard it is to have any idea on where to locate the shot sound of near distant car exhust backfire in built up areas.

[General Bolt]

Originally posted by junk2drive:

I play with all sounds off. Ultimate FOW.

But Uber FOW is playing with screen off too! But seriously folks

Actually, when I'm sitting to play my 5 or 8 PBEMs, I'll forget to turn the sound on till after a few turns have been played and sent. I just think of it as standing too close to a 150 and going temperarily deaf.

I never even thought about putting the camera over the enemy troops just for listening purposes. Isn't that CHEATING and GAMEY?? In real life, the commander can't listen in on what the guys over there are saying. The whole point of playing BFC games is that they attempt to simulate real war as much as possible for $35 a shot. If you want gamey try an RTS game.

Maybe the commander has one of these Long Distance Microphones

[junk2drive]

Uber FOW is no last seen markers.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Originally posted by junk2drive:

Uber FOW is no last seen markers.

...and Franko's True Combat rules.

[Philippe]

Originally posted by General Colt:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by junk2drive:

I play with all sounds off. Ultimate FOW.

But Uber FOW is playing with screen off too! But seriously folks

Actually, when I'm sitting to play my 5 or 8 PBEMs, I'll forget to turn the sound on till after a few turns have been played and sent. I just think of it as standing too close to a 150 and going temperarily deaf.

I never even thought about putting the camera over the enemy troops just for listening purposes. Isn't that CHEATING and GAMEY?? In real life, the commander can't listen in on what the guys over there are saying. The whole point of playing BFC games is that they attempt to simulate real war as much as possible for $35 a shot. If you want gamey try an RTS game.

Maybe the commander has one of these Long Distance Microphones </font>

[Zalgiris 1410]

Here's one from the other day; I watched and listen to my elite sniper take a single crack at an exposed tank crew and heard "outch my leg" while camera was close to that tank exactly as it shut its hatches. I thought good bloody shot by Jove! The tank never opened its hatches after that, it waited a bit then advanced to park itself 100m infront of the main flag building and just sat there for over 10 minutes while my troops could only hide inside. Eventually I managed to move a schreck team against it from the flank and hit it with the forth rocket! Two crewmen out of five got out of the tank who were then shot by the unhiding troops from insde the building.

Fair enough so I won the battle and checked the kill stats for my units. The sniper had none, WTF, and the schreck had the tank and 3 for infantry casualties while sure enough the troop unit had the other 2 for the crew. None of these units fired at anything else, even the sniper finished with 9 rounds left! (This was on the quiet sector.)

That tank behaived as if the sniper had hit a member of the crew, staying all buttoned up while nothing was happenning anywhere around it. IME it would have normally made itself unbuttonned otherwise. I don't know if having been shot at from 300m by a sniper made the crew keep themselves all shut tight for over ten minutes but I definately heard the "outch my leg" or possibly even "outch I've been hit in my leg", not sure IIRC but words to that effect, it was the only thing that happenned durng that full minute turn though.

Unless it was missinformation the only way I can rationalize this is to assume that the guy who the sniper nailed was too injured to exit the tank or else in some way was also hit by the schreck rocket, purhaps worse and thereby in avoiding a double count resulted in only being included in the schrecks kill tally. Bloody weird hay! :confused:

[ August 26, 2005, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]

[Brent Pollock]

1. obviously the sound files don't take cover into account (a TC shot in the leg ).

2. You've encountered an oddity in the crewkill scoring system. It seems that crew casualties are not registered until they are forced to abandon the vehicle. So, the PSK gets all the casualties that have been inflicted up to the point of forcing the bail out,and the infantry gets the mop up amount. You can also get incorrect crediting of vehicular kills that seem to be death-clock glitches, although I could be wrong on that one.