AI cheating ?

[Tiredboots]

Just finished "Lodzt station".German forces left:1 tiger under fire from 3 directions by 6 rus. tanks,1 germ. squad taking cover(cowering.)2 turns short of limit.verdict: a draw.1 flag taken.Might the lack of flag captures be the reason?Just following Jason C precept of :forget the rags,davai,davai,just roll them up.Same basic outcome with 2 other scenariots.

[Mad Russian]

Originally posted by Tiredboots:

Just finished "Lodzt station".German forces left:1 tiger under fire from 3 directions by 6 rus. tanks,1 germ. squad taking cover(cowering.)2 turns short of limit.verdict: a draw.1 flag taken.Might the lack of flag captures be the reason?Just following Jason C precept of :forget the rags,davai,davai,just roll them up.Same basic outcome with 2 other scenariots.

Normally far more important than the flags are the points for casualties. Check the AAR page when you are finished for a breakdown of the points you got during the game.

[Dandelion]

I have never had the AI cheat on me actually. At least in no manner that I have not order it to.

As Panther has pointed out, flags carry a specific value (one of two optional values as decided by the designer). This means the designer is free to regulate the total amount of points for flags versus casualties. That way, he can make sure the players are going for the objective he wants them to.

Of course, it's basically a decent thing to do, to inform the player what the ultimate objectiove of the operation is - geographical progress or attrition. Jasons advice will be directed at a scenario of geographical gain, where the VPs for flags outnumber the VPs possible for casualties. Such advice will probably be nullified if the entire scenario is set on force conservation, with casualty points exceeding the value of objectives.

Cheers

Dandelion

[JasonC]

Now people are just making things up and pretending I said them. (g)

No, my advice is not directed at scenarios in which flag points outweigh knockout points. Nor the reverse. My advice is to ignore all such questions and the flags themselves, and just destroy the enemy force as efficiently as possible. And let VPs take care of themselves.

The reasoning is that intact enemy forces are the only thing that really holds flags or kills friendlies or keeps other enemies alive. The only real "prop" under every VP the enemy has or can hope to keep, is the fighting power of his remaining forces. Kill them, and that prop will fall, and VPs will follow shortly afterward.

It is possible for specific timing to leave flag points to a basically beaten force. It is possible to lose so much wiping out the enemy that you don't win on VPs even though you win on the battlefield. But both are rare and not something you can seriously control, so you should not worry about them.

Players screw up the chances they have by letting flag or VP considerations influence them in the direction of senseless or overly risky moves. The best way to cash the chances you have actually earned by your play, is just to focus on beating the enemy and let victory take care of itself. This advice does not depend on anything, it is meant to be global.

[Dandelion]

Not sure I get it. I know the destruction of the enemy force as sole prerogative is a viable thesis in Army level operations, but I didn't realise it was one at tactical level as well.

Lets get concrete. Setup is Defence, I have three flags weighing 900 pts total, and a force of some 300pts total potential casualty points to defend them with. Enemy comes on with a force of 750 potential casualty points, thus odds are the usual 1 to 2,5. How do I implement your advice in this very common global situation?

Or lets have another very common global situation. I have a force of 300 potential points that is to exit on the far side of the map, thus another 300 points potential nonexit points for the enemy to earn if I don't make it. The enemy is between me and the far mapside with 200 potential casualty points. How do I implement the advice?

Or how about this one - not so common but not unusual. Enemy has paradropped or are for other reasons scattered irregularly throughout a large area, with 500 potential casualty points at unkown locations. I sit by flags with 300 points VP, with a force of 300 potentil casualty points. There is a further 300 points worth of flags unattended out there. What do I do?

Cheers

Dandelion

[JasonC]

"How do I implement your advice?"

1 - Kill the enemy. When they are all dead, walk over to the flags.

2 - Kill the enemy. When they are all dead, walk your exiters off.

3 - Kill the enemy. When they are all dead, send a few guys over to the more distant flags. (If they come to you, fine. Just so you kill them).

A map without enemy units on it can't stop you from doing a goshdarn thing. Kill the enemy, and you can do whatever the heck you want.

[JonS]

Oh Jason, you manoeuvrist you

[roqf77]

This advice does not depend on anything, it is meant to be global.

you mean universal? dont you?

[Tiredboots]

So,I think I got Jason C right:wipe out the enemy & tiddy up the map.Wich make RL sense.It still does not explain why the AI decided to close the game 2 turns short of a 20+ scenario.And there I was:prood noob achieving a succesful north & west staggered envelopment with center final punch & plenty of inf. / armor left,just to be handed a draw.Shall keep a more accurate log in the future.Thank you for the replies.

[Philippe]

I seem to recall that in CMBB if both sides are low on ammo it will trigger an automatically accepted ceasefire. When that happens the units in the game are telling you that it may be a game for you but its real life for them, and they need to be relieved.

[JasonC]

As for the mechanics of your particular game, I suspect you got an auto ceasefire due to low ammo and global morale. The AI was undoubtedly deep in auto ceasefire offer due to losses. If both sides fall below the threshold where their "offer ceasefire" button would be depressed involuntarily, an auto ceasefire must occur. That does not ensure a draw, just an early end to the game. If the AI's remaining few units happen to hold flags, and you have taken high enough losses, you can see the result you saw. I wouldn't call this "cheating", though you may have won objectively at that point in the game. It is just the roughness of any systematic way of forcing ceasefire offers. You can avoid auto ceasefires by limiting your side losses and not expending every round of ammo before the time limit e.g. leave some units with ammo remaining. If you try to "game" ammo expenditure so every round is expended at the time limit, you might wind up too low just before it, to make it to the time limit. Otherwise, it should be rare.

[Tiredboots]

Well,the 2 previous replies I think hold the answer to my question.I shall pay more attention to ammo expenditure in future games.Again: thank you.