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KV-1 headaches


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Pz-IVf/2. Spring 1942, I recall. There could be some Marders or such at the same time, too.

I checked it, yep Marder II & III can kill KV-1. The 50L60 gun has some chances with Tungsten, but I wouldn't count on that.

[ March 31, 2005, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: Sergei ]

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That can be sort of a multi part question.

What can kill a KV and what can kill a KV before the KV kills it, meaning what can stand up too a KV and likely defeat it.

Starting in Dec/41 the game will give you HC ammo for the Stugs and PzIV's, this will kill the beast, though the early PzIV's don't have a hope in hell of staying alive after the KV fights back, the stugs can stand up to them a little better.

The 50mm-L60 gun can achive penetrations on the early KV's from the front with tungsten ammo, but it takes a lot of hammering at it to do that.

Starting in march 1942 you can get the PzIV-F2 and the StugIII-F, these can kill KV's.

But neither one of these have very good odds of staying alive in a one on one slugfest with the KV because of the light 30-50mm of armor.

Starting in april/42 you can get the 30-70mm armored PzIII-J Late, this puppy can in regards to frontal at least take some of what the beast dishes out, but the 50mm-L60 gun has a hard time killing the beast from the front, most of the time though you can make it cower, but more then likely the PzIII will die.

It's not until june of 1942, that in the game the germans get a real KV killer AFV and that is the StugIII-F Late, this baby has 30-80mm of armor and with the 75mm-L43 gun can stand up to the KV frontal wise of course and kill the beast.

I'm sorry I forgot about the marders you can get them in the game starting in april/42, being equipped with that Captured Russian 76.2mm-L51 gun they have the fire power but haven't a slim chance in hell of survival in a toe to toe slug fest with a KV.

[ March 31, 2005, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: DEY ]

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An alternate school of thought is to go for a lot of smaller caliber/high ROF weapons (5-6 pz38Ts for instance). Just pepper the KV with shot. If the crew is green you may be able to spook them despite a lack of penetrations - if not, gun hit 'kills' have not been unheard-of in the game ;)

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Hullo,, technicaly speaking, Any german panzer with 37 mm gun or better may get lucky against a kv, But if i know i'm going to face a kv, I want a lot of Pz3 with the 50 mm L60 at least,

These cute puppys are available from the start, Go for vetran and crack,, You will need a full platoon and will probably loose most of them anyway,

for a 1 on 1 sluging match, you need to wait for the long 75, stug,

I hate using uber tanks,

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Originally posted by Der Kunstler:

Hey guys - What's the first German AFV in CMBB that can deal with the KV-1 and what date does it come out in the game?

Everything has more or less been mentioned here. A compact decisive outline on what can kill a KV, RELIABLY (not tungsten) from the FRONT up until the first AFV that can really handle it:

June-July '41: 88mm flak

August'41-Febraury '42:captured 76mm AT gun, 88mm flak

March '42-on: PzIVF2 and beyond

Obviously there are many other ways to deal with a KV from airpower to hail fire, but the above are the only reliable frontal kill options.

I for one do not get hung up bitching about gamey tank purchases or uber stugs. Most of this is whinning from inexperienced players. But a KV in the first months of '41 . . . .now that's a real monster to deal with. Unless it's August '41 and the captured 76 is available, it's in extremely poor taste to purchase KVs and any decent player knows it.

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A less talked about weapon that is equally effective is the 37mm Pak36 with Hollow Charge Rounds fired from the special muzzle attatchment they issued. As you know, the 37mm gun is really common, and if you were playing a quick battle, they might be a good cost effective choice. The only downside to the HC rounds is their really slow muzzle velocity...it'd be tough to hit a moving KV at range.

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Solid tactics.

Never try to duel it out.

If you must engage the beast frontally and ATGs are not an option, I'd suggest you use a well armored tank and a cheaper well armed vehicle. The first presents itself early out of effecitve range of the KV (500m for 70mm frontal armor), then you button up the beast with inf fire, then the second sneaks into LOS some way behind the former - preferrably out of LOS of anything that might shoot at it except the KV (aka keyholing).

It helps if your shooters are on a reverse crest, increasing the angle of your armor.

Guns:

Anything described above - in any number available.

sIG with area fire works sometimes.

20mm AD is gamey but you can try.

HC for 3.7 ATG, 7.5IG or 15cm sIG works well with TRPs up to 200m when the target moves slowly near the TRP.

Combat bonus HQs for the guns! Stealth bonus if you fire at a distance. Morale bonus might help or hurt depending on position.

Terrain:

A KV coming down a slope while your shooters are on a hill: Top hits should kill the beast!

Gruß

Joachim

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In addition to the guns listed above:

I was able to kill a KV at 100m in two shots with the 42mm German AT gun, listed as the 29.4 L/56

The German 75mm L/46 is also an effective alternative to the captured 76.2mm.

As mentioned above the 50mm L/60 with tungsten is a possible solution. I've found that in that particular instance, the angle of attack is especially important. If you can maneuver so that the

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Lol, didn't realize I did that. What I meant to say was that the armor on the KV-1 Model 1941 is 75mm + 20mm @ 30 degrees on the front upper and lower hulls. If you can maneuver a 50mm L/60 with tungsten rounds so that the angle at which it is attacking from offsets the slope in the armor, you can kill one even at some distance with the tungsten ammo.

The reason that this is important is because armor slope greatly increases the chance of a richochet, which, as suggested by the manual, is partly a function of the shot-to-plate ratio. Since the 50mm Tungsten round kills due to its high velocity and not its large caliber. Thus the width of the shell, when compared to the thickness of the armor, does not stack up favorably. The theoretical chance of penetration, however, remains the same. Thus, in a quick scenario that I threw together to test it, I found that if I put a Pz.Kpfw. IIIJ on top of a hill I was able to kill the KV at 200m in 3 shots:

-The first hit and penetrated the front upper hull.

-The second hit the track -- no report on damage

- The third penetrated the front lower hull, knocking out the tank.

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