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Crews and victory points...

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Here is my test:

I made a tiny scenario in the editor. I put a regular PzIVG out in the open presenting his side to a 57mm AT Gun hidden in some nearby woods. Accompanying the AT gun are two maxims and and SG43 mmg with short cover arcs. (I put a couple of German bunkers out of the action so the scenario wouldn't end as soon as the tank died.)

I then killed the tank several times and called a ceasefire, looking at the final results score each time.

When all five of the crew get out alive, the final score for the Allies is 140 (the exact cost of this tank in the editor without rarity)

I then ran the test again and when all five crew got out alive, I took the cover arcs off the mgs and machinegunned them all. After ceasefire the final score was 172 - that's 32 more points. Now imagine if your opponent was ruthless and took the time to hunt down and kill every crewmember you had on the field - in a big battle that could easily approach the cost of a 300 point flag.

In another test when only two crewmembers crawled out alive, the final ceasefire score was 159 - so the Russkies got 19 points because the other three German crewmembers burned up in the tank.

When two crewmembers died in the tank and three crawled out, the Russkies got 153 points, or 13 extra points for that. So the computer is definitely keeping track of each crewmember - although it seems to be a strange number of points (6.5 per man?) - not sure about that. This is a regular crew - I'm assuming vet and crack crews would garner even more points per man.

Here's the amazing thing - When the Russkies blew up the tank and instantly killed all the crew inside, and none crawled out, the final score went back to 140! So you actually get more points for letting the crew crawl out and shooting them than blowing the whole tank up!

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The crew members don't exist as a separate unit until the vehicle is abandoned, at which point the program spawns an infantry unit - the crew - if it determines any crew survived the vehicle's destruction.

Each unit is worth points, so indeed a crew can score you points in addition to the points for the vehicle.

There are specific cases in which this doesn't make sense, but in general it's a good system.

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Yes nice post DK and good response BF!

I knew the crews were worth more but never really put a number to it.

This also shows it is very dangerous to use crews in any recon or combat mode that may put them in harms way.

I hope you don't mind but I will share this information with the guys over at Band of Brothers website. smile.gif

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I think it was carefully designed this way: another reason to keep people from using crews as front-line soldiers or spotters. Another reason to care about your crews and get them out of harms way.

And keep them from getting captured!

I think it is an interesting, atypical CM design choice. In general, the design stays away from issues of handling issues not directly relating to combat. No evacuating wounded to aid stations, or medic units, or supply depots--despite occasional requests for these.

So one could make a case for not even representing crews, either with tanks or knocked out guns.

But they decided to. And I find it interesting to see how, from BO to BB/AK, progressive efforts to fine-tune the idea.

Thanks for the info.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was actually going to make a new post on a similar topic, but decided to piggyback on this one, since it seems this post has some people who have the time to run tests looking at it. Generally, when my tanks are knocked out, I send the crews to a far far away location near the end of the map. Would it be a better idea to send the dismounted crews of tanks,on-map guns/mortars/FOs with no ammo left completely off the map? I feel like i would take a morale hit on that but just have no clue. Also, in the many scenarios that give the player truck-borne infantry, is it best to hide the empty trucks in a (seemingly) quiet corner, as I've had more than a few knocked out this way, especially from air attacks, or should i just move them off the map? To make my question a tad more concise, is it better to hide crew members and useless trucks on-map, or send them off? If there IS a morale drop, is it significant enough to worry about?

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I will move my crews usually to back flags out of danger or off the map. My trucks I often drive off the map after make their deliveries. I have even moved my FOs off the map after they did their job. Also gun damaged tanks and vehicles that can't fire. Why give the other guy easy targets and points? In my experience as long as you are winning this little drop in morale won't do much of anything.

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