Schoerner Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 I'm no expert and therefore would appreciate any information if this is right: the historical correct name of German "Mot. Recon" units is "Kradschützen", isn't it? Does this mistake only appear in the German version, or in the English-CDV version, too? [ March 09, 2003, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Schoerner ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntEater Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 That was something I wanted you to change as well. I am not sure which is which, but I think the recon battalions of ID (mot.) and Panzer Divisions were Kradschützen until 1943. At least those Aufklärung (MC) units should be changed (MC meaning Motorcycle, even in german version) Also, all those "SMG" and so still remaining in the german version. And "Panzerschützen" instead of "Panzer schützen" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoerner Posted March 9, 2003 Author Share Posted March 9, 2003 OK, so it seems i'll have to make a English version, too. Let me summarize: "Mot. Recon" was called "Kradschützen" until 1943. Q1: (i don't have the game here, so i can't check it) Is there an appendix of the year in the unit's name (i.e. "Mot. Recon 41")? Q2: what's the exact spelling in the game-bar, in the unit-window and in the scenario-editor of the wrong named recon-units and how should they be called (suggestions)? Q3: what was the name after 43 for "Kradschützen"? Q4: "SMG" changing to Leichtes Maschinengewehr "lMG"? Q5: "hMG" changing to Schweres Maschinengewehr "SMG"? Q6: What do you mean with "MC" units? When and for which untis does that appear in the name? I can't remember i ever saw this in the german version. Feel free to share any further suggestions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntEater Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 I have the german version. mot recon could be "Kradschützen" all along, I think. Aufklärungs Battallion (MC) is on the buying screen, even in the german version. I think it means you buy a Kradschützen battalion (minus Motorcycles, of course). From what I have read, the Kradschützen units were often used as advance infantry and as tank riding infantry. Especially in Africa, but also on the east front. The motorcycles were just their means of transportation. for the MGs sMG and lMG (s and l small letters) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer76 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Originally posted by Schoerner: Q4: "SMG" changing to Leichtes Maschinengewehr "lMG"? Isnt SMG "Sub machin gun"? And the german counterpart would be MAchine Pistole or something to that effect? LMG is Light Machine Gun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 AFAIK the Germans used (and still use?) lMG and sMG. Similarly, there is lFH and sFH, etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorri Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Kradschützen... there was a batallion along EACH german Panzer Div., as well as the Infantrie-parts of the PzDiv`s own Recon-Batallion; (normally of companie-size) Aufklärungs-Abteilung were called Kradschützen... the Kradschützen, therefor are somewhat "light-mobile-infantrie", used fo various issues. Those of Recon, flank-secure, quick ahead-missions,etc. Their "sign" was the Krad, a war-moped/motorcycle, if you like. but use for transport all they could, all there was..Kübelwagen, ride tank, whatever... The Kradschützen, see themselves, and they sure are, closely related to the cavalry-part of the army. actually the Kradschützen-Idea is somewhat of the "Dragoon" in Napoleonic/later times, rifled-cavalry. As you sure know, the panzer-divisions miracle were the availability of all "differet" army parts, at one spot. part was infantrie, part was artillery, part was tank, and yes the cavalry is there too..as it will be in 43/44(!), the last KradS-Batallions became part of the new-formed "greater" recon batallions.. the AA, aufklärungs-abteilung [as another example the Kradschützen companies of the 16thPz Div were all simply but together, to from a "5"company sized KradSBatallion(in may42), which then along with the "slow" PanzerSchützen/PzGrenadier change in german military, renamed this partcullar batallion as "Aufklärungs-Abteilung"] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorri Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 the german machine gun trouble is somewhat a joke. well i`m quite sure this is so, because of the cm-engine, which has to be a bit "generall". All armies in wwII, and also today use light, carry-able machine guns, as well as real heavy once.. BUT the "real" difference between a german light and a heavy MG is the tripod.. AND NOTHING ELSE. all rumors are bla-bla. you but a "tripod" below your beloved mg-42, and have some belts run free, with quite some accurance. the german mg are fast, super-repeat.. not HEAVY, in concern of bigger calibre.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorri Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 if you haveno time, schroener.. MECHANIZED-categorie/army type ..all buyable aufklärer/recon ARE Kradschützen till 42/43, with little or NO apperance in 44. Kradschützen are "Dragoon"-cavalry, to get the right milit.-historic image.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoerner Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Snorri, thank you for the info. What i still don't know, how should i name the "Recon" units from 44 on? Can the "Recon" units still be purchased from 44 on? If so, which name do you suggest? (year dependent renaming is only possible, if the original unit names include the year i.e. "Recon 44" - is this the case?) At the moment we have the following corrections: mot. Recon -> "KradS." (or "Kradschützen", "KradSchtz." - depends on number of available letters) sMG -> "lMG" (leichtes Maschinengewehr) hMG -> "sMG" (schweres Maschinengewehr) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cogust Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 No, SMG -> MP (Machine Pistole) LMG -> lMG (Leichtes MaschineGewehr) HMG -> sMG (Schweres MaschineGewehr) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoerner Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Tx. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntEater Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 It's MPi, not MP for SMG. After 1944, the units should maybe be called "Panzeraufklärer" or so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorri Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 yes, "PzAufklärer" is fine!, i mean the tipping in the patch is set by how many letter are usable. Kradschützen,KradSchützen - > KradS ; no: Krad-Schützen,Krad Schützen, Krad_Schützen(unmili.no?) best: AAbt. - > Aufklärer Gruppe (like normal..Inf.-settings) prefer: PzA Abt. -> PzAufklärer or PzA Infantrie, i think Panzer-Aufklärer..writting it out looks cdv-unmilitaric..no? beside: is Maschinengewehr possible? well MaschineGewehr is unmilitaric/ungerman spelling, too. If it`s to long..i prefer the short-form: Mg, with an l,s in front. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntEater Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 btw, "Krad" is nothing specially WW2ish. The Bundeswehr still calls motorcycles like that. "Krad" or "Kräder" (pl.). Short form of "Kraftrad". I dont know why the military uses "Kraftrad" instead of the usual "Motorrad" for motorcycle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D Salt Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by Snorri: [snips] BUT the "real" difference between a german light and a heavy MG is the tripod.. AND NOTHING ELSE. Apart from number of spare barrels, obviously... All the best, John. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by John D Salt: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Snorri: [snips] BUT the "real" difference between a german light and a heavy MG is the tripod.. AND NOTHING ELSE. Apart from number of spare barrels, obviously... All the best, John. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by manchildstein II: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John D Salt: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Snorri: [snips] BUT the "real" difference between a german light and a heavy MG is the tripod.. AND NOTHING ELSE. Apart from number of spare barrels, obviously... All the best, John. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Crap... I wrote up a rather lengthy description of the changes of "Aufklärungs" units throughout the war, but I lost it Here is a short version. Basically, the term "Panzeraufklärungsabteilung" was, as far as I know, not made official until the 1943 Neuer-Art reorganization. It applied to Panzer and Panzergrenadier Division types. Prior to that the divisional recon battalion was simply called "Aufklärungsabteilung". Each Panzer Division, only, had an independent "Kradschützenabteilung" assigned to it. These formations were slowly reequipped and disbanded during late 1942 and early 1943, becoming the standard for Neuer-Art. Similarly, the infantry type divisions got rid of their horse mounted recon units and replaced them with bicycles. The Germans had a SLEW of different units, all named various different things. We simplified this because the average player wouldn't have a clue what was what. This is because, for example, a company would be named after its main feature. Very confusing seeing as their purpose was the same (i.e. recon). As for the HMG (sMG) and LMG (lMG) naming convention... it has NOTHING to do with weight, rather purpose. A "heavy" machinegun was designed to provide reinforced defensive/offensive fire. More men, more barrels, tripod, optics, and a ton more ammo were assigned for this purpose. That is what makes it "heavy" much the same way a Panther tank is "Medium" even though it weighed more than most other country's "Heavy" tanks. These designations were designed to identify the role of that unit, not how much it would tip the scales. It is coincidence that generally "heavy" units are actually physically greater in size and/or weight. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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