Jack Carr Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 German infantry in trench lines being pounded by Russian tanks from a distance while Soviet infantry slowly closes in. The dilemma is that I have no artillery to speak of. The one spotter or two 81mm mortars have been eliminated. My anti-tank guns have been knocked out and the two or three panzers I have are now smoking hulks on the battlefield. I don't want anyone to get a lob-sided impression. The anti-tank guns, panzers and artillery did quite well but eventually did get knocked out and their are still plenty of Russians and several, two to four, T-34's or IS-2's left. In playing as a German defender against a Soviet AI I have found myself in this situation more than once. I am at a loss to combat it and my grenadiers suffer terribly without really being able to fight back. Throwing this one out to see if anyone has any kind of suggestions in either how to fight back or successfully extricate the men from the problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Originally posted by Jack Carr: German infantry in trench lines being pounded by Russian tanks from a distance while Soviet infantry slowly closes in. The dilemma is that I have no artillery to speak of. The one spotter or two 81mm mortars have been eliminated. My anti-tank guns have been knocked out and the two or three panzers I have are now smoking hulks on the battlefield....Throwing this one out to see if anyone has any kind of suggestions in either how to fight back or successfully extricate the men from the problem. "Surrender you fools!" —FM Gerd von Rundstedt Michael [ August 07, 2003, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Michael Emrys ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 "Surrender you fools!" —FM Gerd von Rundstedt no, don't surrender. defect! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 no mortars? smoke? at the point in the war that there are IS-2's the ammo loadout for most tanks is quite low. maybe you can weather the storm. hide your men. remember, you don't have to hold out forever just till the end of the game. DON'T try to close assault in the open. the tanks won't come & get you unless they're sure you're not pioneers. don't give them more info than you have too. for all they know there's a Pak kill sack just in front of the flag. hide with a 30m covered arc. remember, if your men pin, if you have them hide they unpin quicker. if the tanks are at a big distance & not in enfilade they will have to cease fire when the infantry is on top of you. i hope you gave the AI a huge point advantage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Do you have the ability to have your troops hide with very short cover arcs? By hiding, that might convince the AI to stop shelling and with the short cover arcs, by the time you open up on his advancing infantry, they might be too close for his tanks to resume fire. Plus, with your guys in the trenches, you'll have a better chance of standing off his infantry. Just a suggestion. Without being in the battle from the begining, it just wild guesswork. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Bellator Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 OMG! If you are losing to the AI then your only option is to keep quiet you muppet 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Hide your boys and hope the shelling stops. I really hope you have invested in barbwire and some mines. Be sure you overlap your fields of fire. Don't make your cover arcs too long to maximize the effect of every bit of small arms fire you make. Roughly 100m seems fine but let the heavy MG42's reach out a bit further... or save them as nasty surprises at closer ranges. Are your trenches in anything like woods? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Carr Posted August 8, 2003 Author Share Posted August 8, 2003 Yes, on occassion I do lose one to the AI. Hell I could lose to just about anyone! HA HA! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAT Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Jack, For those that say to try and hide and hope they don't target you and the game will end...don't buy it. I had an all infantry against CA in flat, open, rural terrain (zero AT assests but did have a company of Pioneers in the trenches). When I saw them coming on turn 1, not much to do. So, I did the hide thing. I lost 0% to 100%. That's right, didn't cause even one casualty. And this was in a campaign. My core experience went from Reg to Conscript in one battle as only 17 of my men made it passed the NKVD while running off the map. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Originally posted by JAT: Jack, For those that say to try and hide and hope they don't target you and the game will end...don't buy it. I had an all infantry against CA in flat, open, rural terrain (zero AT assests but did have a company of Pioneers in the trenches). When I saw them coming on turn 1, not much to do. So, I did the hide thing. I lost 0% to 100%. That's right, didn't cause even one casualty. And this was in a campaign. My core experience went from Reg to Conscript in one battle as only 17 of my men made it passed the NKVD while running off the map. Running without suppressive fire is bad - but I doubt you can suppres the tanks. Guess your initial layout was not so good, you had bad luck or the AI at +100% or more. Had a similar situation last week. Two btns of Soviets hitting my entrenched left flank (one reinforced plt low on ammo) late in the game. The AI Soviets closed in very quickly across open ground, but I resigned to sitting it out (my tanks were out of ammo, he had none). My men fought off the spearhead at below 40m, and then - a 40 turn variable game ended after exactly 40 turns. If the game had not ended, I would have lost that plt (one of the few vets in a campaign) in the next 4 or 5 turns. If you sit between the flags and the Soviet inf closing in, they will come at you. Only a massive volume of fire can stop Soviet inf. So my advice is: Hide! It may stop some shelling. Once Ivan is 30 m in front of the trenches, open up. Shelling then will hurt him more than you Yet I would not expect many to survive - except if the game ends soon or there is not much Soviet infantry. Running will get you killed, too. Surrender... well losses in Siberia were high, too. Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Originally posted by Jack Carr: German infantry in trench lines being pounded by Russian tanks from a distance while Soviet infantry slowly closes in. The dilemma is that I have no artillery to speak of. The one spotter or two 81mm mortars have been eliminated. My anti-tank guns have been knocked out and the two or three panzers I have are now smoking hulks on the battlefield. I don't want anyone to get a lob-sided impression. The anti-tank guns, panzers and artillery did quite well but eventually did get knocked out and their are still plenty of Russians and several, two to four, T-34's or IS-2's left. In playing as a German defender against a Soviet AI I have found myself in this situation more than once. I am at a loss to combat it and my grenadiers suffer terribly without really being able to fight back. Throwing this one out to see if anyone has any kind of suggestions in either how to fight back or successfully extricate the men from the problem. Welcome to the East Front, Herr Major. If the armor is far enough back, and yr entrenched, hide. A lot. The AI don't know 'bout no Area Fire --- can't hit what it can't see. As for the Sov infantry, it'll take the path of most cover to yr lines. Try and cover the potential routes of advance, but save yr fire for 40m --- unless you've got some HMG's. (Just remember though, that HMG's are fire magnets for the AI --- once spotted, they'll be pounded). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 You have two choices, sit there and hide like everyone is suggesting or my choice - CHARGE! Of course you will be mowed down but I kind of think you're up the old creek without a paddle anyway and the Russian's will talk about German bravery for a long time. Just kidding about the charge thing. Sometimes there's nothing you can do but lose and this looks like one of those times for you I'm afraid and as far as being beaten by the AI, it happens to me all the time and I mean all the time. Good luck and do let us know what happens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 There is one other option The selected banzai. Unfortunately it reeks of gameyness. If you have enough men or you can split into sections, hide the rest as suggested and have one unit charge, the tanks should zero in on that unit. repeat as necessary So you are drawing most of his fire onto one unit while giving the rest a chance to hide and hopefully survive until game end. Send out people you don't like of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Originally posted by Hans: There is one other option The selected banzai. Unfortunately it reeks of gameyness. If you have enough men or you can split into sections, hide the rest as suggested and have one unit charge, the tanks should zero in on that unit. repeat as necessary So you are drawing most of his fire onto one unit while giving the rest a chance to hide and hopefully survive until game end. Send out people you don't like of course. A better approach would be to just show these units to the enemy while keeping them entrenched. They have a better chance to survive longer and thus you need to waste less of those units. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 shoot, you think you got it tough? my dad told me about his war experience(never mind my sig). it started off bad. his troop ship was in a raging storm at sea and he was knocked overboard. so he swam 150 miles to norway with full pack so it took him longer than usual to swim that far. anyway, when he reached the coast he was immediately surrounded by the entire german army. they charged his position. he killed like 500 of em but finally ran out of ammo. then 1 got through and bayonetted him in the back. he turned around and killed the german by snapping his neck, then pulled the bayonet out of his back, still attached to the rifle, and killed some more germans. once again he was out of ammo so he took his last grenade, pulled the pin and charged the germans. by that time, they were so scared of him they all ran away screaming to their mammas. just before the grenade blew up he tossed it as far as he could. as it turned out, it landed on a german battleship and sunk it. after that he sewed his wound shut, which is a real trick when it's in the back. he had to dislocate both arms to do it. then it was just a matter of swimming to england. he arrived just in time to be issued new gear and make the jump in france. and the rest, well, is history.... it just goes to show ya. NEVER GIVE UP!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Originally posted by Jack Carr: German infantry in trench lines being pounded by Russian tanks from a distance while Soviet infantry slowly closes in. The dilemma is that I have no artillery to speak of. The one spotter or two 81mm mortars have been eliminated. My anti-tank guns have been knocked out and the two or three panzers I have are now smoking hulks on the battlefield. I don't want anyone to get a lob-sided impression. The anti-tank guns, panzers and artillery did quite well but eventually did get knocked out and their are still plenty of Russians and several, two to four, T-34's or IS-2's left. In playing as a German defender against a Soviet AI I have found myself in this situation more than once. I am at a loss to combat it and my grenadiers suffer terribly without really being able to fight back. Throwing this one out to see if anyone has any kind of suggestions in either how to fight back or successfully extricate the men from the problem. Reverse slope defense.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Carr Posted August 10, 2003 Author Share Posted August 10, 2003 Thanks to all who responded. In this particular QB, I ended up taking Scarhead's advice. Because of the severe pounding my men took, some of them panicked and ran after a while anyway. At that point I had no conrol over them. Some of the men did survive the onslaught and remained in the trench lines inflicting as many casualties as their dwindling ammo supply allowed. The result was a draw simply because of the high casualties I inflicted on the Russian AI player. I would have much preferred to withdraw the men and save their lives but I did not think that it would be possible without getting them ripped to shreds in the process. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Originally posted by Jack Carr: Thanks to all who responded. In this particular QB, I ended up taking Scarhead's advice. Because of the severe pounding my men took, some of them panicked and ran after a while anyway. At that point I had no conrol over them. Some of the men did survive the onslaught and remained in the trench lines inflicting as many casualties as their dwindling ammo supply allowed. The result was a draw simply because of the high casualties I inflicted on the Russian AI player. I would have much preferred to withdraw the men and save their lives but I did not think that it would be possible without getting them ripped to shreds in the process. Glückwunsch, Herr Major! The counterattack smashed thru the depleted Soviet lines and was successful in rescuing most of your wounded&prisoners. Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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