Norway

[Iron Ranger]

Two items seam 'wrong' with this country

1)DOWs: Axis DOW Norway and we see a small hit on USSR readness, if Allies DOW Norway we see no political effect???? Shouldnt this be just the same as say.. Denmark? A small effect on USA readness? Isolationist US would just say 'its thier damn war and they can have it'? Was this readness adjustment missed when the change went into effect many patchs ago on DOWs for these country's? (Denmark and Norway)

2) Convoys: If USA (or USSR?) takes Norway, UK still gets the convoy and they get the std MPPs from this surrendered country. At least thats what seams to happen in the games I've played (have not broken down the MPPs exactly as USA has tech and not sure of her base)

Sub note: Vichy NA, axis DOW small hit on USSR. Allies DOW no effect; shouldnt we see a small decress in USA readness if allies are so War Mongerish?

Sub note 2: Allies take Sweden, they get the MMPs with no risk to a convoy? Should there be convoy routes to thier respective ports that the axis can interdict if they desire?

[Terif]

Concerning 1):

Originally an allied Norway DoW had political effects. But this has been explicitly removed via patch as it had a bad influence on gameplay (= there simply were no battles in this region). With the removal this area now became a battlefield - before the change it was dead – and that made the games much more interesting :cool:

- removed ACTIVATION#1 events for Axis DoW on Denmark and Norway with a subsequent bump in initial US activation from 15-22%

- removed ACTIVATION#1 event for an increase in USA % when Allies DoW Norway

- lowered ACTIVATION#1 event for an increase in Swedish % when Allies DoW Norway. #TRIGGER was also lowered to 25%

2):

Same as for Iraq - only UK gets the mpps via convoi, USA and Russia don´t get them. 2 reasons for this:

- with the current game engine / scripts otherwise it could in certain situations happen that Allies would get double mpps

- and the intention was when the convois got introduced via patch to allow Axis to raid these convois (players complained Allies did get the mpps magically transfered while historically they had to be transported via ships and could / would have been interdicted by subs).

Sub note 1):

Same as point 1 – how it is, Allies have an incentive to go for Vichy Algeria and there will often be battles in this region (the incentive is not that high as the amphibious costs nearly offset the advantage, but in perhaps 20-30% of the games you see battles for Vichy Algeria right now ).

If you would introduce negative diplomatic effects Allies will simply ignore it like it was earlier with Scandinavia and it is a free be for Axis so they don´t need to hurry any more and can take it with Barbarossa = dead for Mid game battles = bad for the game.

Sub note 2):

Nice to have, problematic to introduce as Sweden has no Atlantic port (would require to change the map) and no real effect in the game anyway as if Allies conquer Sweden, they need to have naval supremacy which means axis subs couldn´t raid the convois anyway...so only a cosmetical change...if Hubert wants to change it, why not (but then the disadvantage of less mpps for Allies need to be compensated too...convois can´t transfer 100% or player would again complain why Sweden 100% and Norway 60%...opens a new can of worms ) ... in any case: wouldn´t be too high on my priority list .

Summary:

You can always argue about a lot of things if they are historical or that they should be changed to this or that - but in the end SC2 is a game and you should also always check the consequences for gameplay if you want to actually change something. Lastly the important thing is that both sides have lots of different possibilities where they have to weigh the advantages and disadvantages and the freedom to make their own choices depending on the combat situation so it will be as much fun as possible .

[Iron Ranger]

Aye, but a few thoughts Terif

1) Yea I remember that patch now, but if really we wanted more 'interest' in Norway we should make it apples for apples.... IE drop the hit on Russia for Germany DOW and change it to the same as Allie.... a risk Sweden will be effected. Now its a race for Norway (sometimes) as both sides can land on turn 4.. axis before allied but at much more risk due to navel supiority of UK + French fleet.

2) Ok, never tested the Iraq MMPs.. was told by one player it was double.

sub1) While I wish we would see more 'effect' to DOWs; these NA minor states are last on peoples list so.... bla!

sub2) Axis could have air power to stop the shipment of these MMPs while they cont control the Balic. So just saying Allies have Sweden therefor they should get the MPPs is not right. A convoy should be required for whoever control these mines. More options for riading, bombing ect the better.