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Scenario Madness


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I have three on the go currently, one in Italy and two in Russia where the designers?testers believe it to be correct that you are the CO but you have not a blind clue as to your forces!!!!

In Italy I am told I have a reinforced Company of the big Red. Can they tell me how many tanks etc that is or am I meant to dig out some books and research what it might mean!? Do I then guess what ratio they then equate it to on the map as sure as eggs is eggs they will not be one to one basis.

Stark staring bonkers design philosophy. To cap it all I find I am mainly tooled up with Sherman 76's which any good WW2 fan knows were peculiarly Normandy and on. GRRRRRR!

In the first Russian battle , very large, I am told that I will meet MkIII's and IV's. Do I have a ******** clue as to what tanks I have coming on - nope. Perhaps I need to deploy our spies behind the lines to give me some insight.

In the other Russian battle I receive reinforcements unexpectedly [the briefing implies I have everything on board] on a road which I have already put a screening force at to cover it.

It seems to me that there has been a collective breakdown of intelligence in briefing design. I am not that fussed if I have two less or more tanks turn up as a tribute to comms. foul-ups but I would expect to have a rough idea as to quantity and types. Is it just me? Am I unreasonable as a commanding officer to expect to have some concept of what tanks are in my division? Late war with radios common is it too much to expect some units to tell you when they expect to reach the battlefield, what road they are on etc!!!!!

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Actually further investigation and after a nudge from Kingfish suggests some 76m tanks may have arrived in Italy in August. However given that in late '44 even in France most divisions had to make do with one 76mm per platoon of 75mm's I find it difficult to believe there were a huge number diverted to Italy. So a general shortage excepting of course the new divisions arriving in France fully equipped.

for amusement:

"I just got this from Joe Demarco and it's from the USNA and is a report from the Battalion Records:

On April 19, upon completion of operations with Eighth Army, the battalion reverted to Fifth Army and was re-equipped with the following types of tanks:

1 Med Company -- M4 and M4A4 w/ British 17 Pounder Gun

1 Med Company -- M4 Series

1 Med Company -- M4A3 w/ 76mm gun

1 Light Company -- M24

Source; HQ Fifth Army Armored Section, 6/15/45"

Not used in action though.

web page

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Funny isn't it? I have had players tell me they don't like knowing when the reinforcements turn up and others tell me they like to know. It's the same with set up's. Some like them in place so they just hit the 'GO' button while others like to set up their own forces.

I look at it this way. I made the scenario and I know I will not please every player out there so I write the briefings how I like them and set up the forces that way to.

By the way, I do mention what forces are coming on and where they will turn up :)

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Broompatrol

Well you could provide your own examples : ) Actually I do add reviews etc but I until the last year or so I would play with choose your own games but in BoB you tend to have many scenario based tournaments. So I am getting into playtesting etc.

I also play scenarios now and occasionally we have ones where you realise there has been a design error. Unfortunately there is a school of thought that thinks fair play is allowing both sides to have the scenario to play through first - which is an abomination, or that you mirror play the game. Fortunately it seems to be unpopular and NABLA for club tournaments may occur. : )

BT - Well done.: ) Anyone who, except in rare cases, thinks a CO goes into battle without any concept of his immediate force or likely reinforcements has the wrong idea of what fog of war means! : )

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Here's a couple of my pet hates smile.gif

Reinforcements coming on in full view of the enemy :mad:

Maps that are designed to channel the player into a certain area. If you don't take that route, then you can't advance :mad:

Badly written briefings full of spelling errors and badly laid out. Mind you, if I know the designers first language isn't English then it does not bother me so much (but he could get someone to check the briefings first).

I could go on but people might think I'm a moaning old so and so! :rolleyes:

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I think MR has answered this question well over at TSD.

I share some of DT's frustration in terms of the language used to describe reinforcements, but I don't agree that the detailed contents of reinforcements or the timing has to be specific.

GaJ.

PS: I totally agree that reinforcements coming in full view of enemy is the pits. I'm in a scenario right now where a single Sherm reinf of mine arrive basically on top of an enemy tank. Gah!

[ July 27, 2007, 04:30 AM: Message edited by: GreenAsJade ]

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I can live with some vagueness but when reinforcements are of the order of 40+ tanks it is helpful to know that approximately is what you are going to receive. How can one plan a battle with information like that being withheld from you as CO.?

In this particular scenario I have some light recon and I know I have some T34's and KV's coming - but plan a battle on a large rolling area of steppe on that basis - I think not. Especially if I am told I have an equal number of tanks so no superiority as the attacker - nice proposition.

The designer has decided to place me in a situation that is absurd. No battlefield general goes into battle without knowing what back-up he has - and remember that we are talking about units that cannot be more than a few miles from the action if they are actually to fight inside a 30 minute time frame.

I have read the arguments advanced by MR and I can understand the thought processes even if I think they are wrong. I think if this particular scenario is revised with an idea of the forces involved, the excellent map and scenario could be a great battle. As it stands anyone playing it for the first time as the attacker is pretty well stuffed.

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No battlefield general goes into battle without knowing what back-up he has
Sometimes the battle is brought to the general, and he is not prepared.

Sometimes the general is dead, and his #2 is unprepared.

Sometimes the back-up is dead, or out of comm, or committed elsewhere.

Sometimes the opposition decides a battlefield general under attack, and with no back up, is in their best interest, and will do their level best to assure such a situation occurs.

Having said all that, sometimes scenario designers really do drop the ball when it comes to briefings.

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I try to write briefings providing what I think the commanders must have known in the historical situation, either based on some explicit account or implied by actions taken during the course of the historical battle.

Other times I simply make up something that is sensible or contributes to game balance. Not that some of my historical scenarios are all that balanced. A few of them are straight interpretations of available historical accounts with balancing applied only in the form of bonus points or flag count/placement...

I also have a kind of 'golden rule' which states that I must limit each briefing to 2 CM display pages (2 for scen brief, 2 for axis, 2 for allied). Otherwise I get way too wordy. The optoinal fun stuff goes into designer notes, historical outcome notes, photographs, extra maps and so forth packaged in the scenario download.

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Originally posted by dieseltaylor:

No battlefield general goes into battle without knowing what back-up he has - and remember that we are talking about units that cannot be more than a few miles from the action if they are actually to fight inside a 30 minute time frame.

I think this statement is wrong in the context of CMx1 battles. First of all CMx1 battles are not commanded by generals. At the outside, they are commanded by Lieutenant-Colonels, more normally by Majors and Captains, if not Lieutenants.

A large amount of reading indicates to me that these guys often did know what was supposed to arrive, but that this supposed reinforcement often did not:

a) show up at all

B) show up in the announced strength

c) show up at the right time

d) show up at the right place

e) any combination of the above

These things can be reflected in briefings, but I fear that too many briefings can not use the excuse of having thought this through, because they are rather just poor.

All the best

Andreas

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Little "G" means generals as in marshals the troops not General as in a rank lower than a Field-Marshal. I hope that clarifies the point smile.gif

I accept that there are many instances of reinforcements going astray etc but I am not sure if anyone has done a study that shows conclusively that this was more common than battles were forces actually did turn up on time at the right place. Possibly the failures are more memorable.

I can distinctly remember attacks that have been assisted by lost troops turning up in the wrong sector : ) But perhaps that is going too far.

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