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New PBEM Tournament Part II !


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Member # 12356

posted June 26, 2003 01:25 AM


UPDATE ON TOURNEY SO FAR! (revised 7-7-03)

#1 rannug (axis) winner

#2 jollyguy (axis) winner

#3 jo le souvrain (axis) winner

#4 gavrok (allies) winner

#5 reepicheep (axis) winner

#6 Terry (Allies) over disorder (Axis) thru teriff adjudication turn 70 -- See Below.

#7 xwormwoodVS wins over theblackdouglas

#8 xediel (axis) winner

JUST one week of first round left!. if YOUR game goes until july 15 and there is a question as to who will win it, grandmaster terif will decide the outcome! please let him know!

[ July 06, 2003, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: disorder ]


"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography."

Ambrose Bierce

[ July 13, 2003, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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Tourney game Terry (Allies) vs Disorder (Axis):


In this game Axis had the initiative at the beginning. They conquered France, Norway, Yugoslavia, Greece.as well as parts of Russia and only lost the african part of Italy.

Situation in March 1942:

- Norway and Sweden liberated/conquered by free french units (5 armies, Hq, corps)

- not long ago Axis invaded Spain (Portugal still alive)

- UK/US invasion in southern Spain, probably to protect Portugal

- UK/US transports preparing for invasion in France

- Russia attacks towards Warsaw, Romania and Hungary

- Axis is holding Riga and surrounding

The war went forth and back. Heavy fights at many fronts.

At the moment Allies are in the offensive and Axis are defending their borders. The question is: can Axis succeed to defend their homelands and France ?

Material and stuff:

- Allies have a lot more mpp/turn as Axis – 980 vs 580

- Axis have not very much units left on the battlefield. Main forces: 29 Allied armies, 1 tank against 9 german (2 tanks) and 4 minor/italian ones. Axis air nearly destroyed (9 losses): 2 low strength (Lv4 jets) german +1 italian (Lv0) airfleets against 5 UK air (also Lv4) and 3 low tech airfleets from other nations. Total naval superiority for Allies.


- Russia is attacking in the south. There is no axis defence between Warsaw and Romania. To establish a defence line they would have to retreat from Riga (where the defence holds at the moment) since they have no extra units somewhere else. After this retreat it would be possible to hold the line Koenigsberg to Romania. Russia has only one Lv0 airfleet against 2 german Lv4 air. So they cant break through in the near future. But they can cause heavy damage at Axis units, expensive to reinforce.

- In Spain both sides have 3 armies and 4 corps + Hq. Allies have air support from Africa, but no chance for each side to advance against the entrenched enemy, partly in mountains. Trench warfare, not much losses each.

From the Axis point of view it could seem as if they would have a chance to hold their defence lines and the status quo.

But when looking at the allied situation, there is a different picture. Fog of war was in favour of Axis: a huge invasion force is waiting some hexes away from the french coast. If Allies had seen how much units in France are left, it would have been a quick end now:

- Axis have 4 corps, 1 army + 1 hq in France. They cant spare a single additional unit from other fronts without causing them to crash or loosing italian cities to allied transports.

- UK and USA collected a huge invasion force: 7 armies, 5 corps, 2 Hqs and 3 airfleets airsupport + 2 carriers and some ships bombarding Brest.

In consequence: as soon as Allies land in France, Axis will loose fast and this would happen in the near future. UK just operated its air back to England and positioned transports, so they obviously wanted to land in 1-2 turns. Additionally there are 5 free french armies + Hq free for an invasion from Sweden.


Allies have 400 mpp/turn more than Axis and twice as much units in total (4 times as much air) and the units have a better quality. In the long run Axis would loose the mpp war. But war would end much faster if the game would have been continued. Without fog of war, Allies would reach Berlin within 10-15 turns. In the game they dont know the enemy strength, but invasion is on its way and will start very soon anyway. After this, it is only a question of time until France is liberated and Germany would surrender - probably 1943/44. But this would happen certainly before 1947.


One of the rare allied victories in the first round of this tourney:

Terry (Allies) win against Disorder (Axis)

[ July 06, 2003, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: Terif ]

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just to let everyone know that we are still playing:

we had a break since june 25th because i got an injury (5 days hospital) and theblackdouglas was on an business trip for several days.

The allies have landed in spain and france while the russians finaly received reinforcement from siberia. If i remember correct the axis stench darkens the skies of norway, sweden, LC, France, Switzerland, Spain, Portugal, West-Africa (standing before alexandria), Greece, Yugoslavia, Italy, Finland, Rumania, Bulgaria, Hungary. Russian Cities in german claws: Odessa, Kiew, Minsk, Riga, Leningrad, maybe another city as well, not sure about it anymore).

3rd Reich has the edge in jetplanes, tanks and rockets, everything else is unknown to me.

Dont ask me which turn or date, thx.

Hopefully we will have the chance to play a couple of turns before the timelimit of round is reached.

Actually i am waiting for the next save-file (my last turn was mailed on june 25th). :rolleyes:

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thanks for the adjudication teriff.(my thoughts exactly) tongue.gif

actually, i new we were up to our necks in it when we were pulling from all over the map to defend/attack in russia. too much of a mpp difference!

i listed a couple mistakes with an e-mail to terry, and #1 on the list was the nazis getting a wild hair and attacking finland, and then not taking it. #2 was operating a fighter plane to norway(trying to hold capital) and him having enough off-shore support to eliminate it.

imho, his best moves were with free-french and africa colonies, thus strengthening spain and forcing many germans there.

good luck terry! you can make it OVER THE TOP!

[ July 07, 2003, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: disorder ]

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If somebody would please, I have 2-questions:

1) Why is Terif judging a game? Just play it or somebody conceds. Or was it because the next round of PBEM required a winner & there was a time deadline?

2) Disorder, why is your nickname Disorder? The name doesn't fit your mold. Maybe you should go with "Rank&Order", because that what you "read like".

Rambo-Hollywood-Vegas, The All-American-Star

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rambo-- good questions! as regards his judging our game, i am in the process of finding and moving into a new residence, and besides the myriad of other problems, my game was left with my main pc until next week. terry and i had been doing about 2turns/day until i was so rudely interupted by REAL things! rather than accept my resignation, terry decided to have teriff decide our game so we would have it done by the 15th. (i certainly had a hint of the outcome smile.gif ).

regarding the DISORDER thing, when it came time to put a username down, the only thing that popped into my brain was GENERAL DISORDER. but after a day or two, i thought that name to be so lame, that i changed it to DISORDER.

as regards it describing me, there is a certain...chaos that comes over me whenever i play a game. chess, risk, whatever.it is certainly not intentional. i think to myself: "has anyone ever done that before?", or "what would happen if". most times in sc my "thinking out loud" and trying different (and occasionally questionable stuff)ends up with a severely bad move on my part. once in a while it works out.hopefully as i learn sc, it will get better!

now for all the newbies/almost newbies, how about you rambo...where'd the name come from and why? i turn the floor over to the senator from HOLLYWOOD!

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How much time left?

When and how has the game to be judged by terif?

My last turn happend in August 1942, just pushed the russians out of moscow to the urals. The allied landing was not successful, while i started a halfbacked sealion to scotland and used the pizza-catapult against the us...


[ July 12, 2003, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: xwormwood ]

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xwormwood- as terif suggested in our game, send copies of last 2 moves and passwords from each player to his e-mail.

turn is supposed to end the 15th. tomorrow or monday i will post regarding the opponents in round 2. we wont start until a "decision' is reached in yours. if i post upcoming opponents, and you are not quite done yet, i will post it as AND THE WINNER OF---so whoever does win your game will have an opponent ready.

terif is pretty speedy deciding the winner!

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If the game hasn't reached the deadline both players would have to agree to an adjudication. After the deadline, if your opponent doesn't concede and you believe you've won -- and it sounds as though you have -- then send your last two moves to Teriff for a decision.

[ July 12, 2003, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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"i think i could have lost as allied player as well, if we would have had changed sides before we started."

Please count me out of this affair and all future such activities. From now on I will only be a player and let others recieve this sort of nagging asinine aggravation.

I don't need this.

[ July 13, 2003, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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Sorry! It wasn't ment against you, really!

I do appreciate all your work creating such a new and battlefilled scenario, please believe me.

I just wanted to say that my opponenent would surely had his chance to defeat me if i had the allied position, that was in no way ment as a critic against you or disorder.

If i have hurt you, i deeply apologize for it.

Heartless, mindless me, wearing a large hat --> .

Excuse me, forgive me, i feel guilty now. Sigh.


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Sorry if I over reacted.

The truth is the scenario was only being developed when the idea of the tournament came up. It has undergone a lot of further revision since the First Round and I agree, in it's original form it does favor the Axis, but I believe only to a slight degree, not enough to tilt the game. As I've said earlier, playing that original version I've both won and lost with the Axis against good players.

So, the way I came to feel about it is, in adjusting things, the scenario could easily have wound up favoring the Allies, so it needed some care to balance.

I've offered House Rules for the Second Round and I've got the revised version in case the players want to use that one instead. But if the original is still used I really don't care to beaten over the head with what I've already came with publicly.

I rescind my earlier remark, I do need this aggravation, it's a sickness. Also, if the Tournament Winner doesn't go to the Andromeda Galaxy to ride the molten lava rapids and relax in an acid pool, I would have to, so I reinstate myself.

That poster is great and The Real Hussein skit is funny as hell. Thanks for posting them.

[ July 13, 2003, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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I for one liked the scenario, and appreciate the effort you put into it.

I think creators of just about anything need to have a thick skin. If Hubert took umbrage at all the criticism directed at him along the way, we'd still be on SC version 1.0! Instead, Hubert hangs in there, making SC even better. Who would want to play 1.0 anymore? 1.07 is so much better, but only after considerable effort and endless comments and play testing.

Trying to create balance in SC is a definate trial-and-error endeavor. I guess I would see things like a writer must. Suggested edits are not meant as criticism, but observations intended to improve the work. Not all suggestion need be made, but the process of discussion always ends up with a better result than the first draft.

Thanks for your time and the mod!

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xwormwood winner over theblackdouglas!

congratulations axis!



out of the blue NC hat comes these matchups,(as picked by my son charlie who doesnt like strategy-type games)





4jo le souvrain






only thing done on my part was to make sure that both allies winners from first round were guarenteed to play axis in round 2. all the rest was random. of course both #1's play, both#2's play etc. LETS get round 2 started NOW!!

more aar's please!

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Glad you like the scenario. I do have a pretty thick skin, it's just that I responded to all the comments the first and second time around, admitted to the Axis bias, which I've never felt was anything more than slight, adjusted the scenario and became angry because what I read was pretty much whoever played the Allies would have lost!

But there's a simple solution to all this which I'm going to take from now on, which is to disassociate myself from being anything but a player in any of these things. If the scenario used happens to be one that I created I'll refuse to respond right from the start. That's the best way.

It isn't a matter of being thick skinned or thin skinned; it's a matter of enough being enough.

As for Hubert and criticism, with all the things I've said in praise of Hubert and will continue to say, he measures his responses to similar things very carefully. There are entire months that pass without a resonse on his part. Now I understand why; regardless of what you do it becomes endless.

[ July 13, 2003, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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So what scenario are we playing for the second?

I saw all the discussion on what scenario to use, but may have missed the decision on whether to go with the same mod, modify it, or try a new.

If it's the same mod, I'm ready to go, just need to know.

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Hostilities have commenced in round II game Terry (Axis) vs. Reepicheep (Allies). smile.gif We're using no LC gambit and no first-turn of Barbarossa amphibious invasion into Russia house rules.

Two turns have been completed on both sides; and Denmark, Poland, and the Low Countries have fallen to the Axis. An overextended Germany army in Belgium was destroyed; and a sub guarding the entrance to the Baltic was discovered and sunk. Air battles over western Europe commenced on the second Axis turn and have since been continuous.

In the Mediterranean, one Greek army succumbed to the Italians, while another was nearly destroyed. British support personnel are prepared for a hasty departure.

The French fleet is being mobilized for immediate use, due to concerns that it will be scrapped if France falls to the powerful Axis forces.

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