Piumarcobaleno Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Here in Italy "Barbarossa" means Red Beard, and the holy german emperor Frederick (I'm not sure of the english spelling), renowed for his artistic interest, other than for his political achievements, is surnamed "Barbarossa". So u can suppose barbarossa is to remember the "red" color of Urrs, or the great achievements of Frederick Barbarossa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Jersey John: I suppose in SC with 2 Axis HQs to start with and nill for the Allied represents the poor status of our armed forces. That and virtually no armor... I have heard of Von Runstedt I have never heard of Billote or Wavell.. Obviously though the German's were ahead in one arena. BlitzKrieg warfare. They failed after that to show supremacy in either naval or aerial warfare. I don't know much about U-boats but that in the end, #s seem to be the turning tide. Despite the evolution of Sonar. When half your transports are not covered you can't protect everything... Likely an indicator was the high losses of U-boats and their men during the war. Huge Loss of the finest Germany could offer. Poor ole Doenitz got the axe for really doing nothing worse than Strategic Bombing would be to Germany. In Britian the supply was so poor at one point in early years that female smoking was prohibited. LOL So if nothing else U-boats short of being a terror weapon had a great impact on cutting the major supplies neccessary to construct a War Machine capable of making beachheads in Normandy. The French lacked in Leadership and Doctrine but they didn't expect Germany plowing through in such a modern style. Even with this, you think that a few decent Generals maybe would've made an impact on the events even as close to war as '39? I think that it was possible. Lack of leadership hurt! They had the #s and quality of the Germans overall early... Grotesque to think that their intel was that bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer39 Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 What always puzzled me was why both Raeder and Doenitz were convicted at Nuremberg. I really would not put them in the same boat with the others convicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Panzer: One of the remarkable things was that many Allied Generals<with reputations> wrote Doenitz after his sentence of what 10 friggin years??? With sympathy... P.S. US was very sympathetic to German Rocket scientists. In fact our Lunar Module was designed by the Top Nazi Goon of Germany's program! [ May 30, 2003, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: Liam ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Mr P. Thanks for that info. I haven't read much about this period since the early sixties but now that you mention it I do recall part of his fame involving the red beard and hence his nickname. It seems Barbarossa spent a good deal of his life fighting in Northern Italy, it's no wonder his memory would still be present there. Liam Interesting as always. I believe Francous (spelling?) Billote commanded the French First Army in 1940 and was, by French standards a young firbrand. Beyond that I don't know much about him. Presumably he'd have been third in line for chief of staff but I'm not sure of that either. Weygand, before replacing Gamelin , had been posted in Syria, and was cut from the same extinct doctrinal cloth. Wavell was a very competent, forward looking senior general in 1940. At the outbreak of war he was the military commander of all British units in the Middle East, which included Jordan, Palestine, Egypt, Cyprus and the Sudan. He coordinated the early victories of O'Connor in Libya along with the suppression of the palace rebellion in Iraq and the successful British invasion of Italian East Africa. The Greek and Crete fiascos were dumped on his lap despite the fact he wanted authorization for O'Connor to finish Libya with a thrust through El Ageighla to take Tripoli. Churchill packed him off to India, replacing him with Auchenleck. Agreed, it seems incredible that France wasn't more prepared. Usually wars start off using the last war's technology and doctrine. In that the French were superbly prepared. It was their misfortune that Germany was fighting in the current war instead of the last one. Beyond that, the entire country had a lot mixed signals and, understandably, couldn't figure how they'd ever gotten back to where they were in 1914. [ May 30, 2003, 11:16 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Panzer Raeder's was the flimsiest of all convictions. He knowingly allowed the Armored Cruisers Deuschland, Admiral Graf von Spee and Admiral Scheer to be built at 11,000 tons displacement instead of the 10,000 ton limit stipulated by the Versailles imbecilles. This was done before Hitler became Chancellor. Doenitz was convicted of fighting an illegal form of warfare against merchantmen. Nonsense, of course. American sub-mariners testified against their own interests that they had learned from the Germans and employed exactly the same tactics against the Japanese. It was also noted that originally he'd instructed U-boats to assist surviving seamen with spare provisions and also to report their position when out of range. This was stopped when several U-boats were attacked while offering assistance! The real reason he was sent to prison was probably because Hitler had named him as successor. In reality the only thing he did was arrange for a surrender. That, and immediately halt the Holocaust, but I guess the judges hadn't been watching that part of things. Naturally, the only reason he'd been named Fuhrer was because no one else remained: Hess was in Scotland, Himmler was disowned and captured, Goering was disowned and seeking to surrender while Goebels and Borman were with Hitler in Berlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wachtmeister Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Proposed #1 for the "unusual German name" list: Name of Hitler's special train for his diplomacy trip to Vichy and Spain in fall '40? - Amerika. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaWolf_48 Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Grant or Lee? The British were the first ones to give names to planes and tanks. The American Army would only give numbers. M4A4 US Army designation, British designation "Sherman". Thus the Lee was the name first given by British in North Africa to the very ugly and clumsy M2A1, later the US started calling it the Grant. The names for aircraft was the same, the P-51 was called the Mustang by the British first. There were some exceptions however. The Flying Fortress was a US name, as was the P-38 Lightning. My uncle was a mechanic on the P-38's in the Pacific and had first hand reports of how good the machine was against the Jap Zero's and Tony's. He said that if the US Army Pilot knew how to cut one engine and boost the other that they could evade the tight turning Zero or Zeke (Zeke, American name for Jap Army plane, Navy Zero ,A6m5). The DC-3, C-47, was called the Dakota by Brit's, SkyTrain/Goonie Bird by US. It goes on and on with different names! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer39 Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 SeaWolf, Thanks for the info on the Lee/Grant. It's a little more clear now. While we are on names, what does Wirbelwind mean in German? [ May 31, 2003, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: Panzer39 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwormwood Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Wirbelwind = Tornado *********edit********* wirbel=whirl wind=wind whirlwind sounds funny, so i used the translation of wirbelsturm (=tornado/) [ May 31, 2003, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: xwormwood ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer39 Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Wachtmeister I'm not sure when Hitler began riding in the Amerika but I think it was his official train from the mid-thirties till the end. There didn't seem to be any specific reason for the name, naturally it would have been changed in a hurry if he didn't like it. Possibly it was an encouragment to the United States Bunds, but that's only a wild guess. An interesting subject, thanks for bringing it up. SeaWolf Thanks for clarifying the Grant/Lee name issue. One less thing to be puzzled over. xwormwood Thanks for the translation. As a rule of thumb, without knowing much German, I always thought of it as Evil Wind but Tornado is better. I've never been cautht in one but have had extensive experience with their wet cousins. Caught in several large hurricanes along the U. S. East Coast over the decades from Main to Florida and those things are evil winds indeed! BTW, liked that picture of the Barbarossa statue on the previous page. Panzer Great job of extracting info from these guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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