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Tip Sheet #1: Beginning the Game


jon_j_rambo
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I've read many a thread: "Allied Strategy", "How to defend France", "Axis Play", etc. and haven't learned anything significant. I truly think differently than many of you in regards to this game. I've also had many rookies who want a "playing-lesson", that is play a game with FOW-off, while I show them my winning ways. I've decided to begin leaking proven rules & strategies I've discovered & invented.

The main problem is most players dwell on results rather than the process. I believe, "take care of the root & you will get the fruit". Here are the typical statements people make regarding their opening games, which has little meaning.

BAD THINKING --->>> "I like to take Poland in 2-turns it's part of plan" --- This has no bearing on the outcome of the game whether you get Poland in 2, 3, or 4 turns. Granted 2 is better, but not a big deal in the grand scheme. For one thing, you can't control the surrender factor that well. I've had games where Poland won't surrender until turn-4 with everybody dead. So why be concerned.

GOOD THINKING --->>> REAL-DEAL w/POLAND, players BIGGEST MISTAKE (write this down!) ---> Dumb players damage their Air-units by attacking ANY Polish pieces. There is no reason to attack with German air. You have plenty of ground units w/ HQ's support. The only reason to use Air-Units would be at the last second on Warsaw if you got screwed on a ground combat result. Bottom Line: I'd rather take Poland in 3-turns, then 2-turns & have busted up Air-units strength 7, 8, & 9. Equation: 3-turn Poland with strength-10 Air-units is better than 2-turn & busted Air-units.

Above is an example of "How Rambo thinks" versus "How the Dumb Sheep think".

More comments:

1) Don't use air-units to attack the Ardennes.

2) Don't move just 1-2 British ships thru the Denmark straights. You're going to get your ass kicked. If you must do it, wait a few turns & let the French lead the charge. The movement of the Naval pieces later in the game is absolutely critical. NEVER send ships out by themselves. What the hell are you going to accomplish? Take a look at my German corps? Big deal, you might just find 3-fighters & a head-crack for a juicy British ship. Those ships are $600 pieces & you will never get them back. The war could last 8-years. You're missing out on alot of shore bombardments once the Allies establish air superiority. You will need those carriers later.

3) Don't keep British Carriers in engaged battles against German Air-units! It makes you feel good early slowing the Germans down, don't risk this fine ships. You've got to have some punch for later in the game. All the British can offer to the war effort is air-cover later in the game. That's their main punch.

4) Don't buy a 3rd British air-unit early in the game. Your going to be repairing the other 2 & won't have the money. I'd rather have 2-good useful ones the 3-POS.

5) Don't move Allied pieces in the Med. Front unless you have a real mission. What's the point of letting Italy any earlier than necessary.

6) Don't put ships in ports that ground units can attack. You guys don't take care of your ships. Why in the Hell do you park them in Ports near ground combat?

Questions to ask yourself:

1) Do you WRITE DOWN the War intervention percentage at the beginning of every turn? Do you learn what DOW cause what? Do you know which countries piss off the USA & Russia?

2) WRITE DOWN the list of enemy ships!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They have names! You know their beginning location. You know how many. Keep track of their strengths! If you see them again you'll know what kind of opponent you are facing. Is he a naval freak? Did he sail British ships from the Med. upto Denmark? "Loose lips sink ships." If I get a few pieces of information, I can take an education guess where this chump is going.

3) Check the supply status of your ships when you move them. GEE, are there better spots to plant those German subs to pack a better punch. You want to pick the spots of your naval battles. This helps me decide "Should I Stay or Should I go now?" ---The Clash

4) Do you know the LOS rules? Do you know the visibility of subs? If so, how far should I move my sub a turn?

5) What is the order of operations for my offensives? Should the air attack 1st or last? Should the ship closest or furthest move in?

6) DON'T counter-attack soooo much in France. Big deal, you kill a German Panzer. At what cost? You've weakened your key army pieces up front. Sometimes the best defense of France is to do nothing. Make the SOB-German earn it!

In conclusion: Quit getting caught in all these BIG-GAME stratgies of LowCountries-Gambit when you don't even understand fundamentals of the game.

Rambo

[ December 31, 2002, 04:04 AM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ]

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A lot of really good points put in an incredibly obnoxious way:^) I've only played the demo yet the game is on order but I can see a lot of what your saying and agree with all of it in particular.

Counter attack in France only if your line is broken and the the CA will result in a restored line with enough strength to hold.

Does any body actually move naval out of the Med as Allies? What would the point be in trying to force the Denmark straight?

Writing the names of units down and their deployment positions, simple, tedious but brilliant. Anal retentive behavior is the hallmark of the Super Competitor sorry to say it works:^)

Know the rules, sometimes hard with computer games a lot of the mechanisms can be pretty opaque and I sometimes wonder if the manuals were written by anyone who knew anything about the final version. I haven't seen the manual for SC yet so I'm not sure what it's like.

Bottom line sounds like playing Rambo would be a lot of work.

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Thank you very much Rambo for you hints regarding the strategy. It is great to learn from the good players.

I am still a newbie after 2 (unfinished) TCP/IP games. Last night I played against zappsweden (very interesting game and I had lots of fun, hopefully we can continue this game). He followed your strategy as the allies to avoid much damage in the beginning. Now we are in 1941 and all countries are in war, except the axis minors did not wanted to join axis :mad: He saved all his units for an invasion of France which just occured. The 7 or 8 land units are backed up by the fleet with 9 vessels (I think) and 3 air fleets.

France is defended by 8 chorps, 1 HQ and 3 air fleets. General Manstein with 5 experienced units ist just arriving to defend France and the Italian fleet is just arriving too. I am sure I can hold France. Perhaps I will loose the fleet but not France.

In the eastern front zappsweden has some tanks in reserve. But I just attack Turkey and after Turkey is fallen Russia is really in trouble.

Perhaps I will loose the game because I am still a newbie and I made some big mistakes yesterday night. But If 2 similar skilled player would continue this game I am sure Axis would win. Why do I think so? Because Germany became too strong. I get not 560 MPPs and Italy gets 130 MPPs. The Allies not getting nearly 800 but the strongest nation Russia in only getting around 420 (this is my estimation). Germany also had some tech advancements in the last rounds (after a long time without any advancements).

I think if you can concentrate more MPPs in one nation the value of each MPP is increasing because you can use them more effectivly. Just remember the MPPS for research. And England and the USA have to wait 2 or 3 turns until they can buy an air fleet. Germany can buy 1 or 2 air flets every round. There are scale advantages if you can concentrate so much MPPs in one country.

Rambo what do you think?

Only my 2 (Euro)cent. :D I wished I could invest more time in this game or millitary strategy. After the Panzer General series this is my second war game.

Sven

[ December 31, 2002, 06:36 AM: Message edited by: Sven1969 ]

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Very good tips, Rambo. As you correctly imply, many games are won because a player makes more mistakes than his opponent. Looking at the long term results and shrewdly protecting your valuable assets like air and armor is very important. A good general does not focus on the current battle, but what he envisions the battlefield to look like after it's over.

I would caution folks not to believe every unit name they see, because units can be easily renamed. That's one small piece of false intel you can present your opponent, and sometimes it can be enough to throw him off. ;)

Let me say here that I respect Rambo's playing ability and I don't hold any personal grudges. He's obviously played many games to learn from his own mistakes (if any?) and observe the mistakes of others. [ ... and their numbers are legion, he says.] SC is a well balanced game between two good players, and victory goes to the player who makes the fewest mistakes. And as I commented on another thread, there are no secrets in this game - only FOW and the Fickle Finger of Fate.

I'm glad to see Rambo using the forum to share some valuable insights about the game. We all need to learn new tricks in order to improve our playing abilities, from the newbie who just started playing the game and doesn't know any better to crusty old gamers like myself who "think" they know everything. tongue.gif

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Sven1969, i happen to have an entirely different view on our game. Since i have lost VERY few units(for being allies) althroughout the game i have being able to buy much quality troops. Russia has lots of tanks and hq, UK has lots of fleets reasonable intact.

Iraq and Turkey is in allied hands (except for iraq capital) and there are no minor germans from Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria.

In the middle of the night i became a bit impatient but when we resume the game i will show you some fighting spirits again.

NO, i do not agree with that 2 equal players would fight this for an axis win from this point. My opinion is that current position is a clear lead for allies. The game is early 1942? and already lots of US armies and HQ are in France (occupying about 1/3 of France). Also, Russia has only lost one! city so far, just waiting for a france transportation that weakens the axis eastern front. I also see that lots of German troops are corps since high casulaties has forced germany to buy cheap units. Russia, on the other hand, has quality troops and it will show i promise you.

Turkey will NOT fall, no way. A few corps or armies in mountain are no easy target. I can operate them there lightning quick and it will take LOTS of air units and lots of time to conquer Turkey.

Russia has level 3 tank tech versus germany level 0.

UK has level 2 air fleet versus Germany level 1 air.

Half of italies colonies are taken.

Germany have too few air fleets to be able to get strong.

There is no way for germany to get air superioriy now unless hey focus EVERY air unit in one front i.e France. Even if they get superiority it will COST them since UK have good air tech.

[ December 31, 2002, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: zappsweden ]

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GOOD THINKING --->>> REAL-DEAL w/POLAND, players BIGGEST MISTAKE (write this down!) ---> Dumb players damage their Air-units by attacking ANY Polish pieces. There is no reason to attack with German air. You have plenty of ground units w/ HQ's support. The only reason to use Air-Units would be at the last second on Warsaw if you got screwed on a ground combat result. Bottom Line: I'd rather take Poland in 3-turns, then 2-turns & have busted up Air-units strength 7, 8, & 9. Equation: 3-turn Poland with strength-10 Air-units is better than 2-turn & busted Air-units.

On this i have to Disagree, although you might have an AF as low as 7 (maybe six if your unlucky) it provided some of the Luftflottes with valuable experience. (I believe there is 1 german AF that has No Experience at the start of the game.) With these trained up Af's go after Denmark and kill it without commitng more than 1 corps to the fight, and take it in one turn.

CvM

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Rambo -- -- Thanks for the info; you listed three mistakes I commonly make regarding airfleets. The others were most instructive and I'm glad you've made this posting.

CvM -- Good counterpoint, seeing different approaches to the same situation is always a help. I don't know personally which is better but am glad to have both for consideration.

Lance Runolfsson -- "-- incredibly obnoxius" no,no,no -- you haven't been reading the proper forums for that :D I can't tell you which ones they are as I like to hubnub with the more gentlemanly crowd who are beginning to imply I spend too much time wrecking things with our hoodlum element. Anyway, I think there's room for both in this site and I enjoy the postings of both extremes. Basically I'm all for having fun; it's just there are varying definitions of things getting out of hand. More often than not the moderators here, Moon and Madmatt (and Hubert, the game creator) are more than fair. smile.gif

[ December 31, 2002, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

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CvM --- I'm not a big-fan of worrying about experience, those German troops see enough action. If the fighters take a dent-or-two against Poland, repairing (reinforcing) them will take it away anyhow; except maybe a half of star (.5). The game gets pretty intense quickly in the LowCountries. I want my flyers freshy-10's banging heads in the sky w/ the Allies. Why? Everybody is into the LowCountriesGambit.

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zappweden I am a great admirer of your knowledge but I would like to disagree in some points.

Iraq and Turkey is in allied hands (except for iraq capital) and there are no minor germans from Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria.
Yes Truekey is in allied because I declared war 2 rounds before. But Turkey lost 2 units and will soon be inaxis hands without much reinforcements. I captured Romania and Bulgaria already and around Hungary I have 5 units so it will be soon in axis hands too.

In the middle of the night i became a bit impatient but when we resume the game i will show you some fighting spirits again.
Yes I hope we can continue this game later. I learned a lot playing against you.

Also, Russia has only lost one! city so far, just waiting for a france transportation that weakens the axis eastern front. I also see that lots of German troops are corps since high casulaties has forced germany to buy cheap units. Russia, on the other hand, has quality troops and it will show i promise you.
Oh Russia lost cities already. Yes I have a lots of chorps, one in each city of my empire and some at the front. And some are very experienced because I had nearly no losses.

Turkey will NOT fall, no way. A few corps or armies in mountain are no easy target. I can operate them there lightning quick and it will take LOTS of air units and lots of time to conquer Turkey.
There aren't so much units left in Turkey. And against a experienced army with some air support they will not resist loinger than 3 or 4 rounds. My units in Turkey and the HQ are all very experiended with 3 or 4 stars. That makes the differences I think. But I do not have enough games experience to be sure.

Russia has level 3 tank tech versus germany level 0. UK has level 2 air fleet versus Germany level 1 air.
Yes you are a little bit more advanced. But I could concentrate my advances on Germany.

There is no way for germany to get air superioriy now unless hey focus EVERY air unit in one front i.e France. Even if they get superiority it will COST them since UK have good air tech.
Possible but If I can destroy all your English air fleets that would hurt the Allies very bad.

I made some mistakes at the beginning this can cost me the victory. Please do not forget this is my second game against an human and I was as tired as you in the night.

The discussion is very interesting for me. smile.gif

And I still have my secret weapons ;) like this German secret bomber:

horten.jpg

or this secret planed A9/A10 which should include the A4/V2 as second stages with a few thounds kilometer reach:

a9.JPG

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Sven1969, believe me when I say that air fleets will have a tough time attacking turkish mountain. Just look at the tables in the manual and you will se the great defence bonus.

Occupying the Turkey mountain will take long time. If you use air and occupy 1-2 hexes per turn it will take 5-10 turns. Probably with high losses.

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