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Does no one at all, I mean nooooooo one at all read threads past the first page?

No not being mean here smile.gif

But it seems a week doesn't go by, without someone making the apparently "new" discovery. that SC looks like Clash of Steel.

This has to be the most beaten to death on a regular basis thread topic I have ever seen anywhere heheh smile.gif (now remember I said that smiling).

Come on guys, let it die, yes SC looks like Clash of Steel. It also looks like A3R and WiF to some extent, as well as High Command and several other WW2 Grand Strategy games.

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Did all the other threads on COS include this PDF document?

Sarge, what exactly is your problem anyway? I didn't make any claim to "discovering" that SC looked like COS. I realized it was very similar the instant I downloaded the demo and fired up the gamed and remembered my COS play from NINE years ago.

I did discover this PDF document, however, which was new to me.

[ October 12, 2002, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: dgaad ]

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I think it's a very common thing for someone who's new to a board to post something that older members might think is a dead horse. After all we all like strategy games here and we share many of the same interests. I don't think it's very friendly or welcoming to address a new member like they are an idiot for posting something, anything, that interests them. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I visit many strategy game board and I have to say that this one is the least friendly. After all noone is forcing you to click on someones thread. If your not interested, don't click on it. And if you do, write to the person the way you would like to be written to. I've said my piece. Thank you. smile.gif

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By the way, there was an update to Clash of Steel that was released in 1995, called Clash of Steel Future Edition.

Its available for a free download.

It doesn't run on systems with more than 250Mhz speed, so you have to use a little utilitiy called Mo'slo.

I downloaded COS and MoSlo, and after a little tweaking of my P3/550 (I set Mo'Slo to use 40% system speed) got everything to run well. So, I'm playing COS again, 9 years after release. It's still a great game.

[ October 13, 2002, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: dgaad ]

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Zeres sorry if I sounded gruff, trust me guys I don't approve of direct insults .....ever (so attributing names to oneself in my name, is not going to get anywhere with me).

The only way I will eeeeeeeever single out a specific person directly for mean spirited verbal abuse, is with a private message (assuming the person has already done it to me first, because I don't have the time or inclination to do it myself initially).

But you can't fault me for showing that a lot of us on the forum do NOT take the time to see past thread trends.

I don't think Battlefront is unfriendly myself (just needs to accept it is not as efficient as it might be)

I too have been taken aback by some comments from posters directing specific attacks against me.

It happens.

I think Battlefront could go a long way in refining the way the forum is organised, but don't hold your breathe (I think the owners like it this way).

It would make finding material easier.

Then again, the forum here developes such an incredible sum of threads.

And all so a person can get seen on page one...for a brief moment.

I know of only one forum (Matrix games) that clears every hurdle. Forum perfection is rarely achieved.

They do this by means of email notification of each time a thread you commented on being posted to.

Sure some won't want the barrage of emails, (some like me though do like the notification).

As it goes, this comment, might well never get viewed by me ever again eh. I don't make a habit of sifting through each thread trying to recall my last comments where abouts.

To return to the CoS .pdf file though, its copywrited 2000 so obviously is long past when the game was made. A nice enough document for anyone that is obsessed with CoS.

But I also have all manner of manuals in .pdf format. Not sure why. Guess I could just say I keep them to offer as downloads to those that insist on playing the games.

It is no trick to find files like that though. Those games have been in the public domain now for so long.

Again sorry if I sounded unduly harsh, but CoS is yesterdays news to me (and not just me). And a beaten to death subject here (unfortunely). And winner of the most done to death subject it would seem (as the comments never change). And a tired in house joke too additionally (again unfortunately).

How can a "new" .pdf file make any of that special? (when the file is itself nothing new or special).

And lastly,

I would gladly great new forum members if there was a point, but unless you mention Strategic command gratuitously in your post, you get the bums rush to the General Forum (were talking about wargames is just like using stop signs in Quebec).

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Sarge- Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I really didn't mean to seem harsh either. I've received some pretty mean-spirited posts myself on this board for no reason. I don't think it's Battlefront's problem really but it would be nice if they did a bit of policing just to make sure people are minding their manners. I mean a 60 year old man could be reading these things or a 12 year old kid. I hate to think of a kid getting scared away from a potential hobby by a couple bullies on a board like this. The thought makes me a little angry. But this board is friendly when you compare it the General Discussion board. They get down right nasty over there. Have you checked out the boards at Paradox Entertainment? worth checking out, well run, with lots of good discussion. Peace out brother.

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Well I haven't tired of comparing Clash of Steel with Strategic Command. I completely agree with the essay, the old game is a classic, and the more this game begins to resemble it, the better. SC is an excellent achievement for one person, but it still has a way to go as a simulation.

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Now ya knows why if the choice is General forum or not at all I pick not at all. I want to hang out with SC buddies personally.

I agree that SC needs polish, it will come in time.

A3R is the benchmark most of us grognards use to measure a game of the SC sort of design. I think it has down fairly well.

I want more, but I think most gamers would ask for more hehe smile.gif

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Apologies to Sarge Only if this has already been covered.

There are 4 computer games which cover WW2 grand strategy in Europe.

Clash of Steel

3rd Reich

High Command

Strategic Command

There are two other games which cover the war in Europe at slightly more detail.

Grigsby's War in Russia - covers only the Russian Front, abstracts Western front activity.

Grigsbys West Front - covers the Western Front. A very old game which was not re-released like most other Grigsby games.

As for board games, the standouts are :

3rd Reich (of course, pretty much started it all ;) )

SPI's War in Europe series - released as a series of modules, eventually combined to a gigantic game called "War in Europe" covered the entire european theater at the divisional level. The maps took up probably 60 square feet. (Note : a version of this game was also made for the computer, but has NO AI -- it is only for human players -- its redeeming feature is not taking up most of your house in order to play)

World in Flames - not sure who published this, although I did buy it and play it. Covered the entire world, both the Pacific and European theaters, although the two theater connections were box linkages.

GDW's Europa series - A set of modules that started off with Drang Nach Osten (later known as Fire in the East / Scorched Earth), eventually covering most of the European theater. I had the DNO and Case White modules. Rumor has it that the series is being worked on and will be released as a combined set covering the entire european theater as "Grand Europa".

There are probably a host of boardgame titles I've missed here. Decision Games has recently re-released and updated a few that are not listed here.

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Originally posted by Zeres:

Dgaad- The entire European war at the division level... Sounds like the game would take as long as the war! That's a lot of 6-sided dice my man.

This game (or either the War in the West or War in the East versions separately) were a staple of my wargaming friends for years. It took months and months to complete a game. Turns typically took over an hour to complete, just for one side, and represented one week of historical time.

Some of my greatest military victories in gaming occurred with this game, however,

Case One : In high school I had a friend who played many wargames with me. We decided to play War in the West, with me as German. We had lunch together every day. For weeks, day in and day out, I used to harp on the fact that the rules only gave a marginal advantage to defense for units in the Maginot Line (which was true), if they were attacked by paratroopers in conjunction with a ground attack.

During the winter of 39 and early 40, I made quite a big show on the map of having as many paratroopers as I could build within drop range of the Maginot Line. I also had a large number of infantry divisions and panzer divisions deployed in such a way as to seem to be ready to exploit a gap in the Line.

As we neared clearing weather, I was happy to note that well over 70% of the French Army was deployed in the Line, along with several British Divisions.

The May Campaign, after all this harping and preparation, opened with a few infantry attacks through the Ardennes, and a seemingly massive infantry and paratroop attack on the Maginot Line.

However, this was a complete sham. My main striking forces were following directly behind the infantry in the Ardennes, and the attack on the Line was merely a feint.

The opponent fell for it. Not only did he leave all the French in the Line, he moved his strategic reserve to a position directly behind the area where my troops appeared to be attacking.

At the moment I was confident that the infantry and panzers in the Ardennes would break through, I then unleased the Luftwaffe, which had hitherto been on limited committment to the Maginot attack. During that particular week, I had dozens of air points switch to interdiction attack, while the infantry and panzers, now across the Meuse, shattered and broke through the French there.

Now my opponent realized the jig was up. He had almost all of his forces deployed about 150 miles from the scene of action, his front was broken just west of the Ardennes forest, and there was no way he could move hardly any troops up to plug the gap because of the heavy interdiction attack.

By this strange course, history repeated itself. France fell around mid-June.

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